Many Christians say that Hell is needed because justice is not always served in life. They often use the fact that Hitler was never punished for his crimes. However, according to Christian belief, if Hitler repented of his sins, he would not be punished for his crimes. I’m curious about what people have to say about this.
is this a bad thing to debate?
No, it’s just that most of religiously inclined have said their prayers and gone to bed. They’ll be back in the morning.
This is the “classic” argument against sola fide (salvation by faith alone). If belief in Jesus’s divinity and/or resurrection is both necessary and sufficient for salvation, then logic dictates that Hitler went to Heaven because he believed, while all the Jews he killed went to Hell because they didn’t. Needless to say, most people find this an absurd conclusion. Fortunately, it’s not really what the Bible teaches. For more information, check out James 2:14-26, especially James 2:19:
Wasn’t this the topic of a Chick tract?
I’m not sure this is a “Christian” argument (since there is certainly no Christian consensus on the existence of/nature of/purpose of Hell), but rather an argument that comes up pretty naturally when thinking about a concept like an afterlife being about punishment or reward.
Frankly, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to have a punishing hell, at least not to us modern, post-Beccaria humans. I’ve personally never been one to agree that “justice” equates to retributive punishment. What concerns me about Hitler as far as him doing things is that he not be put in a position of power where he can hurt people. If he’s off in corner by himself anyway, I’m not sure what purpose flaying him alive for his crimes serves. If he can be redeemed, convinced, shown the error of his ways by people contending with him, or simply grow as a person, that’d be great. If not, then there’s no particular reason to flay him with burning whips of flame for eternity. What does that accomplish? Provide work to some unionized deamon?
You also have do be careful of a “damned if you do… damned if you don’t” situation here in thinking about Christian belief.
On one hand you have people accusing Christians of being amoral for allowing forgiveness to save otherwise evil people from Hell, and then in the next moment, you have people accusing Christians of being barbaric for even concieving of something like Hell, even for the worst humanity has to offer. While I’m of the mind that Hell is a truly barbaric idea, you’re not likely to find many Christians on this board who hold any sort of simplistic vision of it. And forgiveness, too, is a much more complex issue than just “ding! I’ll save my soul now that the police have caught me.”
Man, I brought this subject up long ago.
My next question is, what if Hitler didn’t kill himself (like everyone thinks he did) but was murdered? He wasn’t the only one in that bunker, right? What if he was on his knees begging God to forgive him and what he did and he was shot while doing so. This would wipe out the “suicide is the unforgivable sin” arguement.
My ultimate question is this: Say Hitler repented and made it into Heaven. How many other people (souls?
) who make it there are going to be really pissed to see him there? And How is God going to handle disgruntled folks in Heaven? Here people will be, in Paradise, yet complaining about the other guests.
The mediaeval perception of fire and brimstone hell is a terrible cultural oddity that has no basis on the original scriptures.
Check it out here.
What is interesting to me is that many people get “saved” to save themselves from a forever torment from hell. God is telling humanity “Love me or else”.
I feel that someone could ask for salvation, receive it, then lose it again for turning their back on God. The Rev. Jim Jones, and that dude from Heaven’s Gate are examples.
Many death row prisoners and lifers get saved, because they have nothing to look forward to after death, and the theology gives them comfort. Supposedly Jeffrey Dahmer was “saved” and baptized before a Jesus incarnation named christopher Scarver finally shed his blood.
SP
If I remember my Christian upbringing correctly, one must actually repent IN ERNEST to get salvation. Fear of eternal damnation doesn’t count. So, if Adolf truely, truely repented and was forgiven by God, it’s heaven for him. Would God forgive someone who “only” murdered one person, but not someone who murdered 5? Ooops. I interjected logic into religion in that last sentence…
The Catholic viewpoint is similar to John Mace’s layout, since grace alone does not make one fit for entry into heaven (one of the axes Luther had to grind against the Church). However, repenting is merely the first step. One must then atone for one’s sins in some form or another. One must take certain actions to express their repentance, then the sins are truly forgiven.
And actually I never saw how true predestination Calvinists could condemn suicide. If God knows everything, and thus our end is pre-ordained as much as our life, surely we are not and cannot flout God’s will through suicide?
This is heaven. This is after the point where God lays bare all the evil you’ve ever done. I don’t think anyone would feel very “superior” then. In some ways, I suppose I find the thoght of a man as evil as Hitler in heaven to be comforting. because if he could make, despite all the pain he helped and caused, how much fear can I have?
Not sure what this is talking about, but the Bible does imply in certain passages that for some people, one finds God only after having rejected him in the worst way. Hence the “Prodigal Son.”
That is a very important story here. It says three things:
- Even wicked, self-degraded and selfish people can be saved.
- God doesn’t play favorites.
The Bible has several parables dealing with that last thing. There are no favorites in eternity. Everyone has the love of God, and you don’t have to be afraid and timid for not always doing right.
Priam: Just for clarification, I was speaking from a Catholic perspective. I should’ve been clearer than “Christian” since that often means non-Catholic. I don’t claim to be an authority on Catholicism, but 10 yrs of Catholic school should count for something! I was never sure if those nuns taught us correctly or if they had their own religion…
I’ve heard Hitler is painting roses on the entrance to Hell. 
My personal opinion is as follows…
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God is all-compassionate. There is no such thing as a deed too heinous and foul for her/him/it to forgive.
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Following #1, God already forgave us our sins before we even asked. But to forgive is not the same as forget, and thus the sin remains on the soul. The only way to remove such a stain is to repent and atone. By acknowledging that what you did was wrong, by doing so in both thought and deed, then taking such steps as are within your power to improve the world you have harmed (not necessarily the same part, but something in the world as a whole), God will wash you clean again.
Thus, if in his last hours Hitler truly came to the revelation of his great sins, begged forgiveness, and did all he could to improve the lives of those around him (maybe sneaking out of the bunker to do some community service?), God let him into Heaven.
I do not believe in Hell.
BUT, if one does beleive in Hell and on thinks of it in the traditional terms: eternal and a place of pain/torment/misery/punishment/etc. then neither Hitler nor any other mortal being could be justly sent to Hell.
I’m aware of the small sect of Protestant extremists who believe Catholics aren’t Christians, but you do know that it does NOT mean non-Christians.
Who is wise enough to declare what is just in the next life?
Well…nobody. But we were asked to speculate. 
I think we are really limited in our concept of heaven if we think someone could be pissed about anything there. How can heaven be anything but perfect bliss?
Speaking of micro-managing God: My ninety-year-old mother is fretting about how God will manage to accomodate both her love for my father and her love for her current gentleman caller.
Also – more from the RCC perspective on repentance/contrition: A.H.'s deciding to off himself and the missus in his bunker, instead of surrendering himself and submitting to justice, is strongly suggestive of terminal unrepentance But we cannot say so with 100% certainty. Anyway it’s God’s area of jurisdiction, not ours.
Zoe, at least on the Christian side there is a Jesus quote in the Gospels that addresses something analogous to your mother’s case and assures things are different there.