I noticed this too, as others did. You seemed to really be honest in your scumminess. Almost to the point where you were telling the complete truth about everything other then the fact that you were town.
I think you did a pretty good job. The only things, actually, that tipped me off to you was a combination of two things. A: That whole thing where you were so insistant that roles would be better killed off by the mafia then recruited and B: my accident knowledge of that one post therefore knowing you, nesta or Cookies had to be scum (because Lightnin, the other name in that group, was already dead by that point).
Others that I trusted also seemed to have similiar misgivings about you…so yeah, that was it (although, funny and ironic; even though I posted many times I did think you were scum, as it turned out, I didn’t vote for you in the end but instead was voting for someone pro-town. SEE! A lot of fat good that extra knowledge helped me. :smack: )
Here’s a variant concept, Dragoness: Scooby Doo. This isn’t a role, it’s a big dog. He comes to the side of whoever posts the most during a game day, and reveals overnight the role of whoever posts the least. It needs a lot of work, because anybody can count (or put together a spreadsheet to do the counting), and find out who just learned the role of whom.
The problem is that role-revealing is a HUGE deal. You can’t have people learning roles willy-nilly. For the purposes of game balance, you have to have a relatively small proportion of Mafia; it’s not uncommon for the Mafia to have only two or three members in-game at a time. Learning roles every night is a HUGE town advantage; you basically need to add at least one, and maybe more, Mafia for these as they are “detective equivalent”… sure, they don’t choose, but a role reveal every day is a huge farking deal.
Even random blocking powers are very strong - look at this game - blocks are really the only reason why Town still has a chance to win. If the kills had gone through successfully we would be inches from a Mafia win now.
If you want to add more role reveals, it shouldn’t be every day, IMHO; maybe a “Medium” character who will get a percentage chance of knowing a role based on your criteria, but, that has a chance to get a fake reading. This makes the power a bit more comparable to Beat Cops.
Maybe Scooby-Doo comes to a random townie, secretly, to tell the role of the lowest-count player?
Er, as for tirial’s posting in the game… did she read this thread? Did someone PM her a hint? Or is she just making a brilliant intuitive leap? Suddenly I don’t think she’s been recruited (couldn’t make up my mind before).
Funny you should mention that, fluiddruid, as my first draft of Scooby-Doo was a role with a random chance of learning information. To wit:
Scooby-Doo has a random chance of learning one non-public fact about the previous night’s actions. (A public fact would be typically who was killed and what role they were. The only other public fact I can think of at the moment is that no kill happened.) As the game goes on, Scooby-Doo has an increasing chance of learning a non-public fact, so the role becomes potentially stronger in the late game. But Scooby-Doo doesn’t necessarily find out a role; they might learn, for example, “last night the Doctor protected Qadgop” (to use someone who isn’t in Mafia 3), but this fact would neither confirm nor deny whether Qadgop was the Doctor. Or they might find out “the Detective investigated Gadarene,” or simply “fluiddruid had a night action.” Again, it’s a rough concept from someone who’s never played.
In terms of game balance, I would agree that having another detective type player would need to be carefully thoughtout; but in this game, where I deduce started with 4 mafia with the ability to recruit started out very mugh in favor of the mafia. So an additional pro-town power role wouldn’t be unbalancing. Furthermore, the lurker cop gets to see information about the player who posts the least, and that’s it. It isn’t nearly as powerful as a regular cop since the lurker cop can’t choose a target and will likely get repreated information. Heck, the moderator could even keep the investigation selection criterion secret from the lurker cop too.
Yeah, I think people don’t realize just how powerful the recruitment is, because it can be saved for when there’s only one mafia left. By that point there will also be only a few townies. The recruit is picked from the pool of players who survive. It’s like having an unkillable mafiosi.
And of course, recruitment means that no townie can trust another townie after there’s been a no-kill night. Look at how the town is tearing itself apart accusing each other of being recruited. Of course, if they were smart they’d realize that the only reason they have a strong suspicion that a recruitment happened was because there were three no-kill nights in a row…but they should remember now that that didn’t really happen! And look at the timing. When did this supposed recruitment take place? Back when I was still alive.
One more thing. I thought the various suggestions that we might have chosen “no-kill” just to keep the town off balance were simply foolish. Why in the world would any sane scum do such a thing? To pretend that a recruitment happened? But with a doc and a night watchman surely you’re going to have a random block or two. There’s no good reason to avoid killing a townie that I can see.
I’d be curious to find out after the game ends what discussions were held over whether to recruit, when, whom, and why. I suspect veterans of these games are even more curious.
At the beginning of the game I immediately saw that the correct time to recruit would be 1) if it gives you the win or 2) the night immediately following the the second to last mafia getting lynched, and possibly 3) recruiting the detective to negate investigative power.
All the no night deaths happened before lemur got lynched, so either lemur was the last original mafia (totally implausible) or there are still two original mafia left. If there was one mafia left, then there should have been a no-kill after lemur’s death, which there wasn’t. If there were three mafia left… well, I think that would be unbalanced.
So the town should be able to deduce this. We the spectators have the benefit of knowing the game started with 4 mafia.
On a seperate thought: even though the town can’t win, the mason still can. If the masons can avoid today’s lynch and tonight’s nightkill, they establish a majority. Ugh, but there’s that pesky recruitment. Nevermind. If the town lynches mafia today, and forces a recruitment, and the recruitment hits a non-mason, then the masons win.
So um, does anyone else think tirial has read the Gadarene post in this thread that states thw whole one in each group thing? I can’t believe someone would be able to deduce that on their own.
I dunno. I don’t think she has, personally, but instead just really caught on fast.
I know that she DOES know that I knew something and more info that I should have. Because (and try to follow along hahah) she PMed me yesterday and told me that she had PMed Gad asking him if I knew more than I should or had extra info and that he said yeah but that it wasn’t much and that it was an accident. So her reason for PMing me was to ask just simply “Why didn’t you sub out?”
I PMed her back saying “Yeah I did know more having had something happen…” Although I didn’t say what, “…and I did request to be subbed out at that time but in the end, it was decided that what I had found out wasn’t that critical to be taken out of the game.”
And that was it.
So, I dunno. It’s possible she went back over my posts and found where I started to act different from what my original thoughts/opinions were and deduced there was something there that pointed to knowing something I shouldn’t have…but I honestly have no idea.
But the bottom line is…
I’ve ruined this game.
I should have subbed out the moment I saw that post. Doesn’t matter it was an accident…I KNEW, deep down, it was extra info (even if it wasn’t saying anything concrete) that nobody else knew. Doesn’t matter if it made my game actually harder, or easier, or whatever. Dammit, I should have subbed out.
So many chain reactions happened from it. And, combined with the fact that I SHOULD have been killed way before I was and was technically dead from Night Three on, it just created a HUGE snafu. Even though the two are completely unrelated mistakes, it still joins forces to ruin it, and had I been subbed out that first night, I never WOULD have given a night patrol for Night Three, and that mistake would have never happened by Gad.
So if you really want to think about it, even that could have been avoided if I had insisted on subbing out. I should have insisted. Gad hoped I’d stay in but crap, it’s not his fault because I had said, in the PM I sent to him where I told him what I saw, that I really did hope I could still play somehow. I shouldn’t have said that and really just said “No, take me out. I’m sure.”
I feel so horrible because the game just went so downhill from there. It’s not really fair for either team. It’s not fair for scum. It’s not fair for town. It’s not fair for SCL (who had a DOUBLE WHAMMY of not only being pegged incorrectly due to my knowledge but also shouldn’t have even been started on in the first place by me due to me being dead). It’s not fair for the people following along even.
I screwed this whole game up it seems and from that thing, which I still held out hope that I could stay in and play, created many side things…and now we have tirial either starting the same stuff or being mislead in thoughts too. Even just KNOWING that I KNEW something. It affects people.
The night that I knew SCL was going to get it, I laid at home being eaten up with worry. What if I was wrong? What if I had been wrong? I knew that her or Rach had to be one, but what if, all that time, I was wrong because of things I just happened to KNOW for sure (that one or the other was scum)?
And the next day when I got on and saw I was wrong…God I felt so bad. I PMed Gad saying I suck. I PMed SCL saying I suck and am sorry. Hell, I even PMed MAL telling him to take me out of Mafia four (something he didn’t want to do either and talked me down from…at least it wasn’t because I had knowledge for that game, thank God)
So yeah, I am happy. Happy that I know I have bad judgement and great smackheadedness. : /
Really. It’s just a game. I’m actually more entertained. Mistakes happen and quite frankly, Gaderene probably shouldn’t have posted that post about your post. No one did anything malicious so, at least in my opinion, no harm done.
At least its nice to know that tirial is a sharp one. I doubt I would have picked up on your change in behavior and gain of information, but then again, I haven’t been reading the thread nearly as closely as before.
Idle Thoughts, please don’t beat yourself up about this. IT IS A GAME. It the grand scheme of things it is not important! Mistakes happen, shit happens, whatever. I learned a lot from the time I was in the game and I hope to play again sometime.
It is actually kind of funny, because I notice players from the game more than I ever did before - I feel somehow “closer” to all of them. I was touched by how many of them stopped by my RIP Gweniever thread to offer condolences.
Yeah, I know it’s just a game. And I’m not competitive at all or what not. I don’t take games seriously. Even in-game I was mostly trying to keep it light because I know it’s a game where emotions can run high sometimes.
I guess it was just coming from the feeling that seeing the post by accident harmed my game play…and it really did, I mean nobody can deny that. So I guess some self-flagellation is to be expected.
But thanks for the confident words. I think it’s interesting too, if nothing else.
Thank you for reminding me. I had the screen open to post in that yesterday but then was called away and didn’t make it back online.
But what you say is so true. I notice and feel closer to all the people I played with in that game too. Here’s hoping we can be in another game together sometime, SCL. Promise I won’t go for your head like it was made of gold.
Yaay! They got another one! Welcome, Rachm Qoch, you scummy scum.
So that means that if scum hasn’t already recruited, tonight they pretty much have to… right? So tomorrow will be 6 town/2 scum? Should be very interesting.
I’m about 95 percent sure they haven’t recruited based on things I was told, but who knows?
Thing is, I think tonight we’ll have a no-kill in the game which would mean one of three things. Either they (A) would try hitting tiral (which makes NO sense at all since she all of confessed to being the Doc), (B) recruit someone (which everyone will probably think was tirial the next Day) or (C) vote to not kill anyone (and again, have everyone think that tirial was possibly recruited).
I don’t think, IF B was the actual case, that they’d recruit tirial anymore. I think they’d recruit someone else if they recruited anyone at all. Because the next day, most might probably think tirial was it anyway and might go for her head.
And C would be good too, because again, it saves their recruitment, yet would show up as a no-kill and possibly still puts suspicion on tirial being recruited. So again, people might go for her head.
In any case, if there is a no-kill this Night, it would prove, in my mind, that recruitment hasn’t happened yet and that (if it had just then, going with B) that it wasn’t tirial.
Um. Did everyone understand all that? I tend to be very, very wordy, hahaha. I’m far too analytical sometimes.
I can’t see this happening- because in that case, there would be only one scum left, and far too much chance that the Town might get lucky and the game ends there. But I also agree that the smart scum won’t recruit tirial now.
Wow. What an interesting late day session. tirial was very good in pointing out Lemur’s keenness in lynching a roleclaiming doctor. That alone should have saved tirial, but the town wasn’t paying very close attention.
This statement is so scummy. 1) the vote wasn’t a tie. 2) as town, second guessing a mafia lynch makes no sense. If I hadn’t already concluded DiggitCamara was scum, I’d be thinking it now.
Rachm and Diggit were really dancing the scum dance late that day. They switched their votes like mad to get someone other than Rachm lynched. Worse, they went after tirial! Someone everyone agrees could only be scum by recruitment. The town knows that recruitment is only a possibility and wrongly lynching tirial would be a huge mistake. Better to go after full-game scum at this point and look at tirial later. Town knows this; town feels this. Only scum would think otherwise.
While I had maintained that the best scum strategy is to recruit tonight now that there is only one scum left, I think the confusion over three no-kill nights in a row opens the door to not recruiting now in order to feed the paranoia that tirial was recruited. Scum absolutely cannot vote no kill, because the town will read this as a recruitment. But if scum does a normal kill tonight, he moves towards winning, gains the possibility of the town lynching tirial, but risks getting lynched himself.
The good doctor absolutely must NOT self protect tonight. If I were the doctor, I’d protect Millit. On the off chance that scum choose to kill, tirial has a better chance at a block by protecting someone else.
On second thought, I think the town will pretty much believe tirial is town now that she (he?) got Rachm and reject the notion of recruitment. Scum strategy must be a recruitment tonight.
Did someone PM her a hint? 
: /