Interesting article in the Times today about the shomrim, one of the Hasidic neighborhood watch groups in Brooklyn. Four were shot apprehending a known perv in the area; their injuries are reported to be non-life-threatening.
While I have an extreme distaste for orthodox Judaism, I’ve always been impressed with the shomrim guys when I see them out and about. (I live fairly close to one of the major Hasidic enclaves.) They seem very well organized and are well-regarded by the local police precincts.
Why do you have a distaste for Orthodox Judaism? I can understand why people are anti fundamentalism when it comes to religion when an attempt is made to press those beliefs on others, but I thought Judaism was anti-proselytising, in which case their orthodox views would have no impact on others. Not a personal jab at you, just wondering if there is something I am not aware of.
Do you have distaste for the majority of Africans, Middle Easterners, South Asians, East Asians, and numerous indigenous tribes? And if so do you bring up your distaste for these groups with comparable frequency?
Not to speak for friedo, but this makes no sense. If I lived near an enclave of Objectionable Group A, I don’t have to dislike Objectionable Group B quite as much even if they share in similar characteristics. Maybe if I had the opportunity to see B with the same frequency, I’d dislike them as much. But since I don’t, c’est la vie.
If you claim to dislike Group A explicitly for reasons X, Y, and Z, then to be consistent you’d better dislike other groups that share those characteristics, unless they have some redeeming quality. Now if you live near a bunch of Group A, you might express dislike for those A-ites more often, I agree. However, freido never said that he lives particularly near them, and unless he lives right in a Hasidim enclave, in multicultural Brooklyn he’s just as likely to live near one of the other groups I’ve named. And, he should still dislike the other groups equally, just express it less often.
Of course, this is only the case if he dislikes Group A only for the reasons he claims, rather than underlying causes or reasons that don’t sound as noble.
If they practice barbaric forms of religion and embrace cultures of subjugation and intolerance, yes. But most of those people don’t, just like most Jews are not even particularly religious.
Those are nationalities, not belief systems. A nationality doesn’t define a person, but a belief system like Jewish Orthodoxy does.
I’m Jewish and I don’t like Hasidic Jews, mostly because of their misogynistic practices.
But the thing that always impressed me about Jewish people is that they do a good job of helping their own people. There is also a volunteer ambulance service in Brooklyn run by Jewish volunteers.
I’m also Jewish and they make me quite uncomfortable. I’ve been to Boro Park several times and I swear, the guys there try a harder sell than the preachers in Times Square.
“Barbaric” is a not objectively definable except as a matter of taste, but most non-Western cultures are both not invested in Western causes celèbre like gay rights (or to put it bluntly, would be considered homophobic), have less equalist ideas about gender roles (“misogynistic”), dislike people with differing belief systems (“insular,” though I could say the same about pretty much every group including Western liberals) and observe in-group, out-group stereotypes (“racist” if stereotyped by race, “bigoted” if otherwise. For a good dose of virulent non-racial tribalism try asking Western liberals what they think of rednecks or Tea Partiers). If you judge folks only by these criteria, consistency demands that you indict pretty much every group of people in the world that’s not Western, and a good fraction of Westerners as well.
Since he does in fact live next door to this particular clutch of tribalistic folk who don’t share Western liberal values, I’m fine with him disliking all these groups but being more vocal about the Hasidim. I am however trying to assess whether his noble stated reasons for disliking them really hold water - by applying the test of consistency.
Look, we’re Jews ourselves. We’re not expressing dislike towards members of another group - we’re saying we don’t like certain members of *our own group *whose practices and methods we disapprove of. We’re black people using the N-word.
Like them or dislike them, they are still a fascinating world, and well worth visiting for a few hours, especially if you’re Jewish. It’s amazing how many people, such as Neidhart, are unaware that there are people who still speak Yiddish, for example. Not only speak it, but have it written on store signs.
About ten years ago I got a tour of Williamsburg by someone who lived there as a child. Very interesting.
Uhm, no. In your effort to perhaps shorthand your thoughts with an analogy, you picked the example that is 180 degrees from what you’re getting at. Blacks do not use tne term “nigger” in that way, but usually to indicate affection, brotherhood, camraderie and acknowledgement of a common background. It is complete misunderstandings like this that cause me to advocate us not using the word at all.
I am Jewish, and observant, and I find it fascinating to visit the Chareidi areas of Jerusalem. Sometimes, it’s hard to believe that we follow the same rules.