Are you an experienced gambler? I’m not sure you can make that call.
Everyone, before we discuss my gaming from now on please google ///advantage play///. Hell, there’s youtube videos if you want to see demonstrations. Until you guys recognize this form of gambling, we are going to be on different pages. You all don’t believe in bonus chasing, no wonder you all think I have a gambling addiction.
I played a lot of poker in the past and kept a spreadsheet so I know I made a (very small) profit over time. I have a graduate degree in engineering and have an expert level of understanding in probability and statistics. I googled “slot vulturing” and understand the concept.
You are delusional. Those machines are expertly programmed to make you think you have an edge. You do not.
Please seek help.
I’m not going to get into how much you lose, etc, because you clearly aren’t going to listen to anyone about that. But this
Maybe that’s true- I don’t know. But this
My issue is putting down the brakes. When things get bad, I can’t STOP. When I see a real or perceived opportunity, something in me ignites. I’m in for the kill, entirely in the present. No consideration of past mistakes nor future consequences. I whip out what ever cash I have on me and then pounce at lightning speed. Sometimes I don’t even put in my players card to rack up points for future comps.
suggests you have a problem even if you don’t want to call it an addiction. After all, if I don’t have a drink for months or years - but can’t stop once I have that first one, I’m still an alcoholic. Sometimes with addictions, it’s easier not to do it at all than it is to control it.
Hajario, that is cool as hell. I hope to hear somes stories. Share some industry secrets?
Everyone else (hajario too if you’re interested) go to youtube, type in “advantage play”. Cowboy Slots introduction to “advantage play” should be near the top. This guy has worked in the industry and is not some random degen. He explains “advantage gambling” much better than I could.
Got dammit, I remember why I only talk about poker when I talk about gambling in real life and not the slot stuff.
Bro, I’m like that with almost everything. As I mentioned upthread, I once drove in a snowstorm to get laid. I knew it was dangerous, but I couldn’t stop myself. If being unable to stop ourselves mean addiction, that might mean I have multiple addictions. Where do we draw the line between impulsive behavior and addiction? Yes, it is a good idea that I seek help now. A professional would be able to draw the correct line, provided they are competent.
I don’t know any secrets. I just studied for months before I sat down at a live poker game. At my peak I was making something like $3/hour playing poker and I stopped enjoying it.
There are many ways to improve your odds at slots. All that means is that you’re getting a little less screwed than a random person. You’re still getting screwed. There isn’t a situation where there is a positive EV. If there ever was, it would be buttoned up quickly.
Do you have a home base - apartment or house or are your floating 100% of the time? You lost $2000 in one night, in many communities that is rent for a month, maybe rent & utilities, or even rent, utilities & food.
I read your OP 3 or 4 times, and I can only describe your gambling world as being stress and suffering. You simply have to completely stop. Don’t go near the places. Gambling “a little” for a gambling addict is like drinking “a little” for an alcoholic. It’s impossible.
I could understand it better if what you are doing was actually very pleasurable, but it’s obviously not. They know that, too, so they are going to give you any and all the reasons in the world to gamble in the form of perks because they know they are going to get it all back and a lot more.
I’m reasonably sure that sometimes those progressive jackpots can get high enough that the EV is positive, given a big enough bankroll and time. The casino’s already made all their money and then some, so they don’t particularly care.
MWDG is correct that some of these machines with a metafeature that builds up over time can be +EV, the problem is everybody knows that, and they will all be looking for the plum ones so nobody is ever going to leave one right by the breaking point. What’s left is making a judgement call about how far away it is and having to start while it’s a fair bit away, which up to now if we believe him, (big if) he’s got lucky with so far. Luck not skill imho.
Probably it did. Research shows that volatility is a major component to developing addiction. I am not a psychologist but ISTM that humans remember that $100 win and forget the 20 losses to get there.
If it’s not even fun, don’t do it. You go to a casino and see people pissing away their pension with a look on their face like they are not even enjoying themselves.
Anyways, here is a relevant page to study, but it may not be kept very up to date:
When I was playing at the Bike, the big payouts were the day social security checks came because they played like they were begging to give their money away then after an hour sit there and cry.
I find casinos to be extremely depressing places. The smaller ones on tribal lands show exactly what you describe (I’d describe the slot players as zombies). The Vegas ones are accompanied by loud music, non-stop noise, flashing colors everywhere, stale cigarette smoke, along with very drunk people and for reasons I do not understand, children. I will do my best to never step in one again for the rest of my life.
Am I the only one seeing a contradiction between “advantage play” and “playing slots”. How does Bonus hunting increase the EV?
I suspect it is like taking/laying odds in craps. It doesn’t change the EV but just the volatility.
I remember the first time I set foot inside a casino. It was during the 1990s on a trip with my aunt & uncle to LV. I thought it would be a lively and jubilant atmosphere, with lots of laughing and happy faces. At least that’s what was shown in the TV commercials. I was shocked to discover rows and rows of people quietly inserting coins into slot machines, in a zombie-like trance. I watched them for a few minutes, and then heard bells & whistles coming from a slot machine. The lady at the machine hit a modest jackpot, and it was dumping lots of coins into the tray. Did she jump for joy? Nope. She remained stoic and expressionless. And then proceeded to put those coins back into the machine.
Was one of the most depressing things I had ever seen.
Are you aware that until you press the button, the slot machine has made no determination of the outcome of the next spin? Machines don’t become “due”, “have imminent payout because they are full”, or anything of that nature. A machine that just paid out the max win has the exact same odds of doing so on the next spin as a machine that hasn’t paid out the max despite collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in bets since the last max payout.
The house CAN set odds on a specific machine, but the individual spins are stand-alone events.
I think what he’s talking about is something only certain games have , which gives you (or at least has) a “must hit by” value for certain bonus games. For example, I game I play requires you to collect “wilds” for bonuses and has “must hit by” values of
What MWDG appears to be saying is that he lurks behind a bank of this sort of machine and waits there until someone leaves after building up the count of wilds. This can absolutely work sometimes - but one of the problems is getting it to work often enough to “win” over the course of an hour , much less over a day or a weekend. Because the blue counter may be at 40, meaning I will get the bonus after I collect another 10 blue wilds. But it could take me $40 to collect those 10 wilds and I might win only $10 in the bonus.
The other problem is that unless the person building up the wilds has absolutely no clue about this, they will never leave on their own - the vulture will have to make them uncomfortable enough to leave the machine ( staring at them, cultivating body odor and standing very close etc ) but not so uncomfortable as to call security. Because MWDG isn’t the only person who knows when the bonus must pay - sometimes, it says it right on the machine. And why would I leave with 40 wilds so he can get the bonus?
I think I may have posted in another thread: I used to work for an online casino. We had a payout rate of 96%. We still made huge amounts of money. 4% is not trivial when it comes to hundreds of thousands spent. “Bonus Chase” or not, there is no way to win in gambling. Unless you are the house.
ETA: slots only. We did have a sister company that did cards & roulette, but we were fully slots.
The machines are programmed to maintain a very specific return-to-player percentage - this is often achieved by feedback compensation - so if a large payout has occurred and the RTP is above the desired level, the odds of large payouts may be reduced to bring it back down, and vice versa.
That still takes place over the course of thousands of plays, but it’s not completely wrong to say that a machine with a long run without jackpots, may be statistically more likely to yield one than a machine that has already recently paid out a jackpot.
(The above based on the perhaps mistaken assumption that the same methods are used as here in the UK)