Now, I don’t want this to turn into another “were they gay” discussion (they weren’t), but I was intrigued when a reviewer called the story of Frodo and Sam one of the greatest love stories ever. Any thoughts from LOTR dopers out there?
I don’t suppose it’s possible for men to love each other in a non-erotic way, is it? No, of course not. I’m sorry for suggesting it.
I cried at the end of the first movie when Sam joined Frodo in his quest (even though I knew it would happen.) There are, i’m sure, going to be scenes in the third film that will give me the sniffles.
It’s certainly a love story, just as Tolkein intended it to be. Sam’s loyalty, courage, and concern for Frodo make the trilogy what it is.
<---- Is a total sap 
Yes and no. I prefer to see it (and them) as part of a big old theme of unselfish love triumphing over despair and so on. How people can continue to be generous and open-hearted while all around them the world’s exploding. It’s a universal theme; it’s not just a question of hobbits, or WWI soldiers, or whatever. I think Tolkien would equate it with religious devotion, and I like how they’ve made it a bit like that in the film trilogy (so far; haven’t seen ROTK yet of course).
You just know that the marriage will break-up under the pressure of hum-drum life. You haven’t seen anger until you’ve squeezed a hobbit’s toothpaste in the middle of the tube.
Sam loves Frodo.
Whether you see that love as sexual or a bond of friendship, it’s necessary to recognise that, to understand how it motivates pretty much everything Sam does. It’s why he follows Frodo into Mordor in the first place; it’s why he refuses to leave him in the pass at Cirith Ungol when the sensible thing would be to carry on the quest alone, and rescues him from the tower. To me, this is the emotional core of the book, as well as one of the central points of the plot, since what Sam does from Cirith Ungol onward is what the success of the quest ultimately depends upon.
If you believe the tabloids, it is Frodo and Merry are quite the great love story.
Excellent post Miss Mapp with one minor quibble. The relationship was purely platonic. There was NO sexual relationship between the two nor was one ever suggested. We know because Tolkien tells us this repeatedly. If we are to respect the wishes of the writer then there really isn’t any room for ambiguity here.
And here is the photographic proof as it appeared in ELFIN ENQUIRER.
Sampiro you had to bring up that creepy little site didnja?
As to the topic, as Lochdale has pointed out Plato +Love = Love that humanity should feel for each other. The heart of ‘Christian’ caring being a deep respect and support for each others needs and hopes. The fact that our puerile society can’t get over ‘potty mind’ is a sad sad thing.
Now if only they’d have had a chance at the films end for Sam and Frodo to sit down at a bar together watching sports and sharing a brewski and saying “I love you man!” in too loud voices all would have been made clear.
Despite the best efforts of the Pervy Hobbit Fanciers (;)) around here, it seems clear in the context that Tolkien is describing a deep affectionate friendship of a variety that has existed in many cultures but which is mildly foreign to 21st Century Western Civ. because of the “homosexuality shibboleth” that has evolved in this culture, really only over the past 80 years or so.
I’ve never understood the whole ‘gay’ thing, either.
I’m a guy. There are men that I grew up with that I’d go to hell and back for. That I HAVE gone to hell and back for, and who have done the same for me. I would die for them, and they for me. They are like brothers to me.
I’m not gay. The thought of making sweet love to any of my friends has never crossed my mind. But I do love them. We just know it.
People are weird.
For the record, Sam is my favorite character in the series. to paraphrase from Sam in the end of ROTK:
“I said I’d carry him…and I will, if it breaks my back and heart!”
Certainly Sam loves Frodo, but I’d be hesitant to call it a “love story”, without further elucidation. The unfortunate fact is that, in our present society, “love story” is taken to imply romantic love, or “eros”, which isn’t there. So you shouldn’t just say it’s a love story without explaining what kind of love.
The great love story in LOTR or should I say stories seems to be Aragorn and every elf he comes in contact with.
An exceptionally good article in Atlanta’s Southern Voice, addressing this question, with quotes from Elijah Wood, Dominic Monaghan, and Ian McKellan on the subject.
There was only one passage in the whole book that gave me a “wait… are they lovers?” feeling concerning Frodo and Sam. Other than that there was nothing to sugest they where anything more than good friends who truly cared for one another and where each others only support in very trying times. The passage i refer too:
One of my favorite parts of the book, but unless Mr. Tolkien was using “mate” to mean “comrade” then it could be easily be taken as proof that there was a bit more going on between Sam and Frodo than good friendship. Not that there i anything wrong with that!
IMHO, the love is largely one-sided. Sam loves Frodo, but Frodo doesn’t reciprocate.
We’d have to start with the clarification that there are many types of non-sexual love. The love of a parent for a child and vice versa, for instance. Or love between siblings. In this case, I think we’ve got the love of a servant for a master – not a love that we have much comprehension of nowadays. While Frodo admires and respects Sam, you wouldn’t call it love – the master doesn’t love the servant.
I don’t think they were a romantic couple, and mate in Great Britain is used to mean buddy more often than it’s used to mean love partner. I always hear English people talking about how they went out with their mates, and their best mate said such-and-such.
However, on the way back from the theater last night:
sugaree: I don’t believe for a second that
Sam married Rosie Cotton
Mr. sugaree says nothing.
sugaree: Sam and Frodo bought a townhouse rehab in the Mt. Vernon* section of Middle Earth. Right around the corner from Pippen and Merry’s loft.
Mr. sugaree says nothing.
sugaree: The four of them frequently went to visit Legolas and Gimli in the Miami Beach section of Middle Earth.
Mr. sugaree: No more fan fiction from you.
C K Dexter Haven, would you say that by the end of the story, what had begun as a master-servant relationship had evolved into a relationship between equals?
*Baltimore neighborhood known for its gay clubs, and many other cool things.
sugaree, I think the context of the quote makes it clear that ‘mate’ is of the sexual variety. The quote is directly stating that Sam’s love for Frodo is equal in magnitude to that between mates - although not necessarily equal in kind.
However, a line in RotK says that Sam “comforted Frodo with his body” or something very much like that. I see it as a coded reference to sex, but once again, there’s no explicit acknowledgement of the existence of sex whatsoever in Lord of the Rings. It’s a sexless mythology - so the absence of clear statements like “Sam comforted Frodo with a fantastic blowjob” can’t really be taken to mean it didn’t happen.
Were they lovers? I think so. My interpretation? Frodo was gay, Sam was bisexual, and the old bachelor Bilbo was gay too (hence his close friendship with Frodo - he sensed a kinship there.) When Frodo leaves for Valinor, he says something about not making Sam split his affections (although it may have been vauger than that) - implying to me that, while their relationship had already ended, Frodo felt he was perhaps a distraction from Rosie.
Even if they’re not, they would make a very, VERY sweet couple.
sniff sniff I would love to see them as a couple-and I’m not gay. And it’s not because I’m a fan of slash fic, either. It’s just because I think they’d be perfect together.