Given everything we’ve heard and seen from Republicans/conservatives about Covid all these months and this, THIS, is an actual problem?
Again, that is just a killing the messenger fallacy, deal with the cite by pointing where it is wrong. (This is more interesting as a way to check your bias, as the VOX article does point at how controversial the carbon offsets are. In other words, it was not 100% percent in favor, but that the carbon offsetting needs work)
The point anyhow was that carbon offsetting does exist.
Such as…?
One that proves the liberal hypocrisy without being too icky of course!
Therein lies the rub.
Therein lies a question for another
That you yourself seem to dodge whenever asked
I am not looking for a “rub”-I am asking you directly where you go to get a neutral look at the news.
AP, Reuters, AFP, ABC News. Not Vox (or Fox).
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Funny, because the pictures and the video I’m looking at right now had the tents open on all sides. And really, does it make sense to you that someone would close the sides with an oceanside view on a summer evening?
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I don’t need a lecture on immunization. I understand the stats on breakthrough infections. Immunization still cuts down on cases.
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You’re 3rd point adds nothing to the discussion, but would you like to comment on one of my points, or not? My other point was covid testing.
So, all together immunization, outside (not buying your closed tent comment), and covid tests. The number of guests is problematic and people were probably occasionally getting to close to each other but the rest is spot on.
If you actually care about how to mitigate covid-19 at a social event, you say exactly what I already said. If you want zero risks, don’t socialize at all.
The problem is the power of propaganda and manipulation of emotion. I personally have no problem with Obama and crew having a party if vaccinated and tested. I’d encourage everybody to have a party if vaccinated and tested.
It’s frustrating that politics has invaded every subject and institution and it’s definitely not for the better.
I hope you get a break from the stress now and then. It must be very difficult watching people suffer and sometimes die, especially from something preventable, anyone would need a break from that. I am very grateful for the work you and all the other healthcare workers do, not only in this crisis but all the time. I think most of the posters arguing with you here also feel the same way.
I think you’re wrong in this thread, but I think that’s a small thing compared to all the good you are doing in the world. All the best to you.
Interesting choice of epithets. If Obamapalooza has the same Covid rate as the actual Lollapallooza, 1/10th of a person will come down with Covid.
Well, here’s a recent Reuters Factbox article on carbon offsets:
Which is basically a condensed version of the exact same points being made by the earlier Vox article whose citation is twisting your panties:
So you essentially wasted several posts and a bunch of other posters’ time having a pointless hissy fit about a perfectly reasonable cite that your ideological prejudices apparently didn’t even permit you to read for yourself in order to make an independent judgement about its reliability. Sheesh.
deleted, formatting error
Dunno, maybe because the progressive website had a more detailed and explanatory article? And because not everybody is so squeamish about ideological purity that they’ll refuse even to look at an informative article from a news source with solid reliability ratings if that news source espouses a generally progressive viewpoint?
I mean, shit, I’m quite the progressive myself, but if somebody posts a cite from the National Review or another generally respectable conservative media outlet, I don’t throw tantrums and refuse to read it and demand to be shown a more ideologically neutral source instead.
Whoops, that post was a response to your question about why the Vox citer didn’t just cite a neutral source instead. A question which was apparently subsequently deleted due to a formatting error (thank you Discourse!), and without which it’s not very clear what my post was talking about.
Thank you for the kind words. It’s difficult to get my point across when bias runs so deep. I’ve condemned drunken redneck parties in my neighborhood, criticized right-wing rallies, and tried to tell people not to gather in large groups vaccinated or not. Then a myopic event like this large party makes the news, and I cringe. Donning PPE and spending hot and sweaty hours in Covid units knowing that many are there because of ignorance, and then hearing about this party is perhaps why I react so strongly. It is my bias I guess.
I see the little “chestnuts” CNN puts on their website about a dying man gasping “I should have gotten vaccinated” and I shake my head. Unfortunately, this doesn’t happen. The dying people I talk to still insist that it was their right to not wear a mask and not get the vaccine. Some 43% of Americans are not fully vaccinated and many of those refuse it.
One thing that I loved about Obama while president was his distinguished, well-spoken manner (what a contrast to the last president). People look up to him, emulate him. It may not seem “fair” but they do and his behaviors are watched by many. The energy in this thread put into defending a birthday party rather than saying “yes, safe or not the middle of a pandemic was not the proper time to have this large gathering” saddens me.
Part of the schism we see between right and left is that neither side is trying to see the other’s perspective. They just defend their party’s actors no matter what. Our schools need to begin teaching “understanding and fighting one’s persona biases”
I find myself mostly agreeing with the OP as well. Like it or not, the anti-vax crowd doesn’t do nuance at all, and condemning them for such doesn’t change that fact. I agree that this party will be used as evidence by many that it’s okay for them to have indoor parties. It won’t even just be anti-vaxers: there will be vaccinated people who think large gatherings in general are okay.
And, while I thin @Sam_Stone’s post is bad in general (which I’ll cover in a bit), he does show one of the risks: any rise in cases, whether related to the party or not, would pin the blame on Obama and his party. Plus there’s just the optics of being seen in partying while the country is burning, when even most of us vaccinated people are avoiding that stuff, in case we get infected and spread the virus to others (even if we are okay). That’s always been the left’s message: we care about others, not just ourselves.
Where I take issue with @Sam_Stone’s post is when he gets nakedly partisan:
The priorities here are all out of whack. Stuff about the pandemic matters. Not strawmen positions that you can use to accuse someone of hypocrisy. No one would ever care that he has “A-list celebrities” unless they were jealous. Obama never pretended to not be cool or to have rich friends. Kerry also never said anything about flights, and a single person does not appreciably contribute.
There’s no hypocrisy here. No one would care about any of this if not for the pandemic.
And, as others said, there is no requirement right now to be locked down. You can argue that maybe this big a bash with this much publicity has some bad optics, but it’s not hypocrisy.
The OP hit on the main issue–that of people who miss nuance not getting what he did to make it okay. Sure, you can argue the anti-vax morons would come up with other things to rally behind, but this one is definitely bigger and calls attention to itself.
Politics is as much about image as it is about facts, and it does do good to remember that. The liberal and progressive losses are quite often appearance based, not fact based. We seem to act like being factually correct is enough.
Obama *is* setting a good example. Get tested, get vaccinated, in the open air and with other precautions and we can start to get back to something like normal. People who respect Obama will hear that message since it is also what he has explicitly stated several times.
Meanwhile for FOX et al giving it a misleading spin, I don’t see how that can be helped. Hundreds of thousands have died, including countless people sadly on their death bed urging people to get vaccinated, but none of that is going to change the headline on FOX. So it’s a fool’s errand to worry about giving FOX ammunition.
No, it’s not both sides. I have no party; I’m not American, and while I tend more left I have represented the Conservative party in my native UK. Not agreeing with you is not the same thing as being a knee-jerk tribal zealot.
And you seriously think that the “optics” of Obama having an outdoor gathering while following public health guidelines is going to affect what these people believe?
Unless you’re saying that CNN is putting up fake deathbed change-of-hearts; it’s hard to tell.
“At this time we’re not aware of any cases connected to the Obama party,” Tisbury health agent and boards of health spokesperson Maura Valley told the Daily Mail. “It’s a little too early and the only way we’re going to know is through comprehensive contact tracing.”