Doesn’t speak well of your opinion, does it?
Oh, fine! 
Skimming the article, it looks like they go into some detail about health protocols. (The words “hypocrite” and “hypocrisy” do not appear.) And, again, whether those details are right, wrong or incomplete, the point is that people don’t read that far.
Do people really look at celebrities and base their health care/medical choices on what they see? People are going to say to themselves “Well, Obama had a big party so I guess I can, too” ? Who thinks like that?
I would frame Obama more as a political leader than a celebrity. Certainly he has some celebrity status, but he’s a celebrity because of his political rank. He’s an important person in the Democratic Party. He has used his leadership position to speak for getting vaccinated and other mitigation measures. He’s put himself out there as a person who should be listened to with regards to the virus. His actions carry more weight than a random Hollywood movie star because people legitimately look to him as someone who’s advice should be followed. Having a big party is not really consistent with the message he has been pushing. Technically it may have been safe because he has a team of paid consultants to ensure it is safe, but that won’t really be evident to most people who just hear “Obama had a big party”.
Sadly, yes. This has actually been an area of serious research.
@PossumPie 's original beef was based on exaggerations and misinformation that he was stating in this very thread. If @PossumPie, who is a healthcare provider, cared enough to make this beef, why didn’t he care enough to do proper research? Then he could play a much better role in the community as a healthcare worker.
Also, he’s the one accusing us of being partisan for providing the proper information when he should know this information himself! Either he’s not informed enough to do his job properly or he’s arguing in bad faith.
I have to admit being amused that the scaled-back event included only “family and close friends” and yet had 200 attendees. If I had an event like that, family plus close friends might total only twenty people or so.
Again, not defending @PossumPie, although I’m willing to give him a good-faith benefit of the doubt.
When this broke a couple of weeks ago, I also felt like Obama’s critics were looking just a little too hard for something to criticize. But the recent numbers just led my wife and I to decline two wedding invites, despite assurances from the hosts that they were taking every possible precaution. (One even flat out refuses admittance without proof of vaccination and a recent negative test.) So I’m still not saying Obama was wrong, just that I’m not sure he was right, either.
Frankly, I’m glad Obama had his CDC-compliant shindig. The antivaxxers couldn’t resist the opportunity to engage and decry Obama as a huge hypocrite, but that engagement also has allowed discussions like the one in this thread to flourish, here and elsewhere.
And the clear rejoinder to all of those “Hypocrite!”-shouters has been to point out that what Obama did was safe, and, gosh, you could join us in our partying if only you got vaccinated and followed the CDC guidelines.
Sure, there are those that won’t get any further than the superficial imagery, but those folks have always been and will continue to be a problem. I see no reason for people to avoid what they are now allowed to do because they’re doing it right, and some internet idiot will claim they’re doing it wrong.
I reject the notion that the unvaxxed are why we can’t have nice things. The unvaxxed are why they can’t have nice things.
But are you right, though?
Grey areas are grey areas. There are moral decisions that are black and white, IMO. Others are more grey.
My impression is that some people are trying to get their last bit of socializing in before numbers go up too high and they lose it again. I don’t really blame them for doing this. Even in New Zealand, there was a rush to the supermarket prior to their lockdown, which guess what, has already been extended.
No one’s going to be standing at the end of all of this handing out another free 2 years of life for all of the people going through Covid. The clock ticks for all of us, and Covid is taking away time and opportunities for people that they will never get back.
Not saying we are – just erring on the side of caution. And TBH, formal weddings aren’t our thing, so declining these invites wasn’t an emotional hardship.
But live music is a different story. Back when things were looking up we bought tickets for fall shows at some of our favorite small indoor venues, and – even though those venues are requiring vaccines and masks – if the situation hasn’t improved in the next few weeks we’ll probably stay home. And then I’ll be royally pissed.
I would too, if said corrections were acknowledged instead of ignored.
If the vaccines were highly effective against Delta, that would be one thing. But right now even some vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it. Here in Austin, for instance, we’re at Stage 5 emergency level even though the vaccination rate here is high. Being vaccinated is not a license to go around unmasked or live as if Covid didn’t exist, not anymore. Protection is wearing off.
But they are highly effective against Delta. That’s why 90ish percent of those hospitalized are unvaccinated.
Exactly. We were so close - and yet so far. Who knew that you couldn’t trust the willfully unvaxxed to be honest about their vaccination status! (/s, in case it wasn’t obvious.)
Thing is, the vaccines are highly effective against Delta. There are just so many unvaxxed that opportunities for spread abound, and that is finding any weakness in the vaccinated population. If the pool of vaccinated was a higher percentage, the chance for the virus to leap to somebody, and then leap to somebody, until it finds a vaccinated person that it can infect - would be greatly diminished. If we were anywhere near the levels of vaccination we need, that first spreader likely wouldn’t have contacted anyone that could be infected - certainly not the five or six that this and each subsequent spreader have infected.
With Delta, the vaccines are effective enough that herd immunity is achievable, just much harder to reach. We have probably missed our window of opportunity here. So, the willfully unvaxxed have managed to ruin things for everybody.
You misspelled “it’s Obama so it’s automatically wrong.”
I swore to myself I’d ignore this thread since no one seems to listen to my “follow-ups” but Czarcasm, I have to address this because I’m sick of being called disingenuous or a liar, or misleading.
- ANYONE who refused vaccination except for legit. medical reasons is foolish.
- ANYONE who is unvaccinated and in a large group (inside or outside) is recklessly endangering others and while very difficult to prove in a court, could directly cause the death of an innocent person.
- I’ve not addressed the wild right wing gatherings including the motorcycle rally and the Abbott fiasco b/c I thought we all were in agreement that they are idiotic and reckless. Didn’t know I needed to spell that obvious fact out for you.
- Vaccinations and/or being outside, or being Democratic, or praying to your god, or whatever does NOT reduce your risk for contracting or passing Covid-19 on to others to zero. Vaccinating and/or being outside has evidence behind it that it reduces it by some unknown but finite amount. The other examples have no evidence of efficacy.
- I’m not “picking on” Obama. I mentioned that his public presence was more polite and dignified than Trumps was…
- Anyone who portrays masklessness or large gatherings (Republican parties, BLM demonstrations, Trump singfests, motorcycle rallies, outdoor concerts, or democratic plane trips) as 100% safe is wrong. While vaccinations and 6 feet of separation outdoors DO decrease the odds of spreading Covid somewhat, it is NOT 100% safe. There is a balancing act (limiting people in a sports stadium) versus a complete ban on all gatherings.
- I didn’t start this thread to pick on Obama, but to show that we need to be more careful of ALL gatherings, especially those that the media will report on. I never dreamed that I’d be attacked and called names, I’m a nurse, watching vaccinated and unvaccinated people get ill and spread Covid to their unvaccinated family members and wondering what we are in for next winter. I try to care for ANY covid patient (republican, democrat, vaccinated or not) that’s why I became a nurse. I do wish that I could educate everyone on how we can get on top of this pandemic though…but I have doubts as it is now obvious that both the right and the left would rather argue and point fingers than join together like folks did back in the 1918 Flu pandemic.
Then why don’t you address the misinformation you’ve shared in this thread? If you don’t want to be considered disingenuous, then explain yourself.
Or you can keep ignoring it and playing the victim, and we’ll draw our own conclusions.
It’s weird to me, reading through this thread, that the whole kerfuffle is over a 400-person party? Y’all know the freakin’ NFL is starting up again, with full stands, and AFAIK, only the Las Vegas Raiders are requiring proof-of-vaccination? If I had to choose between a 60,000-person crowd of mixed-vaccination status versus a 400-person crowd of all vaccinated folks, I’m pretty sure I know what I’d be concerned about.
And, yeah, @PossumPie, I don’t know you at all, but - it’s not just @TroutMan… The longer you ignore all the valid points being raised in the thread and only reply to what feels easy to reply to (and especially ignoring the misinformation callouts), the harder it becomes to take you at face value.
Exactly so. I’ve been to few Atlanta United soccer games. 40-50k people in close proximity, the vast majority not wearing masks and I bet not everyone is vaccinated (no proof was required). Though in the last week, the team has opened the roof, allowing it to be in an outdoor setting which is far safer when it comes to the virus.
It seems to be Obama’s party should be a call to everyone that if you get the vaccine we can go back and have these sort of events on the regular.