Yeah, we all know what article is under discussion, thanks dude. That report is disputed:
Because you’re still parroting the lie that they were shot at the aid distribution site?
These are incidents that occurred away from the aid center, when the aid centers were not even open, and people were coming in despite being told the area was closed and being warned off.
It’s also not a thing that happened, so ya know.
…the thing is with Babale is that he won’t quote me saying any of the things I actually said. Because almost all of the time he is just making things up.
On this I was quoting projections from this Lancet paper:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext
The projections are not “wild.” And I’ll break down why.
The authors make a plausible case that many historical conflicts show the same pattern, that indirect deaths (not directly attribute to combat) can range anywhere between three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. For example, in the second Iraq war the Iraq Family Health Survey suggests there were about 150,000 violent deaths in the conflict while the ORB survey suggests there were over a million excess deaths. The numbers appear on the surface to be wildly different. But that’s because they are measuring different things.
And the death figures from the Gazan Ministry of Health only report deaths from bodies that have died from violent trauma and been identified and recorded in a hospital. So the current figure is about 58,400.
For a while in the middle of the conflict the method of recording broke down. The TLDR version is Israel were either attacking or had too many hospitals under siege so they had to switch to a different methodology of recording deaths, and that methodology included media and social media reports of people dying.
Then things calmed down a bit and they switched back to the old methodology. If you remember the big controversy about how “Hamas inflated the death numbers”: this was what it was all about. The switch in methodology meant deaths not verified in a hospital were removed from the list.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean those people that were removed from the list are not dead.
And these are the sorts of deaths that aren’t recorded in those numbers:
And here’s a new one that only came up in the last couple of months:
Because according to the Gaza Flash Updates from last month, the recording of deaths from the north has stopped. All of the hospitals in the north are no longer functional. There simply is no way to get accurate numbers.
And as I noted in the main thread: communication with the north is extremely difficult right now. I’m reading scattered tweets from people talking to people trapped up there: and it sounds as horrific as you can probably imagine.
Most of Gaza are now no-go zones. You can check out the interactive maps here.
So this is the fuller context of everything I said back then. Which was that every humanitarian agency on the ground agrees that the numbers from the Gaza Ministry of Health are likely a substantial undercount, and that some academics suggest that the fuller number of deaths could well be over a hundred thousands.
So when Babale claims that “BanquetBear’s cited wild projections of hundreds of thousands starved and dead was total bullshit”: the reality is that nobody knows how many have actually died, and we won’t know that probably for years, maybe ever. But it certainly isn’t only 58,000.
And I see that Babale is posting disinformation about UNRWA again.
Here are UNRWA’s responses to claims from the Israeli government.
https://www.unrwa.org/unrwa-claims-versus-facts-2025
About Hamas using UNRWA facilities:
https://www.unrwa.org/unrwa-claims-versus-facts-2025
There have been claims made in the media. UNRWA have asked those who have more information about those claims to come forward. So far they haven’t. They cannot investigate it further because they have no information to work from.
Also from the article Babale cited:
If the hostages were held in UNRWA facilities that were abandoned there really isn’t anything that UNRWA could do about that.
What Babale posted does not show “that they are completely unable to do an acceptable job of it.” That’s a completely bullshit assertion. It has absolutely nothing at all do with aid distribution. And UNRWA are not the only aid agency on the ground.
And its important to note that since the start of the conflict the IDF have set up and used as defensive positions, staging areas, and even moved in, Gazan schools, universities, hospital, medical centres, houses, Mosques. Then often after they abandon them, they destroy them.
Ah, yes.
From your cite
Who could question the most moral army in the world?
And from such an impeccable source as Netanyahu!
Meanwhile…
Emphasis mine.
A source that presents “they jumped over fences and crossed embankments towards a military position and got shot” as some crazy humanitarian crime has given up all credibility. That’s some Ashli Babbitt level bullshit.
They were starving people there to get food, you inhumane pustule. And they were there because they were told to go there.
Shooting people as a form of crowd control is utterly evil.
(This is the equivalent of Nazis going into Jewish ghettos and shooting people to alleviate overcrowding. Hey, it’s just keeping order, right?!)
Fuck your glee about mass murder
Uh, since we agree that there are not enough sites, it follows that they will get overcrowded. The responsibility IMHO does fall on the ones that control how many distribution centers are there, because things like that are so predictable to happen.
As I defended Israel when it was attacked, so I say now that when the predictable does happen, and in desperation some people do jump a fence to help a relative survive one day more, it is really inhumane to ignore the main reason why something like that takes place.
So were the people who received the 46 million meals that have been given out the difference is whether or not they jumped a fucking fence at a military site.
Holy fucking shit, I’m not saying it’s a good thing that people got shot. I’m saying that people who jump over fences at military outposts are going to get shot anywhere in the world. It’s not evidence that Israel wants to kill all the Palestinians, and it’s not what some of you, including BanquetBuddy, have tried to paint it as - people standing in line where they were told to when the IDF just unloads on them.
What the fuck? Shooting people to “alleviate overcrowding” is equivalent to shooting people who crossed multiple barriers on their way to a military site? Are you actually stupid?
I’m not gleeful about any deaths, you fucking piece of shit. Not calling something a genocide is not the same as being gleeful about it. You fucking braindead moron. There are more than exactly two possible positions, “genocide” and “fantastic”.
Good thing I was not the one saying that, because still it was so predictable. Criminally responsible still because of what the Netanyahu government decided to do.
The United Nations, which had previously run a network of hundreds of aid distribution points across Gaza but has since been sidelined by Israel, warned that reducing aid distribution to GHF’s four sites would be chaotic, insufficient and dangerous. Since GHF began operations on May 26, scores of Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces while trying to reach its aid distribution sites, according to the local health ministry and witnesses.
The United Nations human rights office said on Tuesday that more than 400 Palestinians are believed to have been killed while trying to collect humanitarian aid in just under a month.1975
…more Babale fact-checking:
The “46 million meal” number isn’t independently verified. It’s a claim made by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
But even if that’s true: that breaks down to approximately 0.63 meals per person per day (a very rough calculation) . That won’t be getting you close to the recommended caloric in take per day. It isn’t even a single meal.
And a reminder that these packages include things like pasta that require fuel and water: but the GHF aren’t providing fuel and water. So instead, many Palestinians are grinding up the pasta and using it to make a rudimentary bread.
And also a reminder that there are only four distribution points. And there are none in the north. The only people that are able to access food are those that are fit and strong enough to run the gauntlet. It’s likely those people are (through no fault of their own) able to secure more supplies as in taking multiple meals.
And those that are not able to travel, who cannot risk accidentally stumbling into a street or a neighbourhood that has been declared a militarised zone, won’t be able to access that food.
Interesting how BanquetBuddy needs to note his distrust of this source, but he’ll happily parrot unverified information released by the Hamas controlled Gaza Ministry of Health.
That’s probably why I wasn’t talking to you in that quote, huh?
There’s a huge fucking difference between “Netanyahu is fucking this up” and “Netanyahu is engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing”. The former might be a position I’d agree with you on, if I wasn’t constantly bombarded with the latter.
…more Babale fact checking:
The Hamas Ministry of Health numbers are being painstakingly, independently verified. It’s a process that historically takes a number of years to do, and every single time in the past the Hamas numbers have shown to be an undercount.
And those numbers are accepted by almost everyone as the best estimate for casualties in Gaza. It’s accepted by the IDF. By the American State Department. We have names and ages and where and how they died and if you want to, you can go and check them yourself.
Is that “probably” that is the issue, I mean your efforts here to clear the authorities from the killings in this situation look inhuman, using points that walk like an inhuman, talks inhuman… etc.
I object to that. The J-sixers were fat bearded pieces of shit dressed in Camo.
The Palestinians are starvation thin and their only Camo is that they look like they could be on orange UNICEF boxes.
There are lots of other differences too…
To be clear, since BanquetBear is a lying smarmy fuck - what I said was that I would apply the same logic he applies to any businesses on the BDS list to his business.
Somehow wanting any business remotely associated with my country to fail is totally cool and based, but turnabout makes me a disgusting evil monster.
IIRC I literally said that if I lived in New Zealand I would boycott, divest, and whatever the fuck the S stands for his business. Pretty precious of him to clutch his pearls over that.
…some details on how the numbers are reported:
This part is important. Because as much as the Ministry of Health is painted as “Hamas”, much of the administrative control is actually in the hands of the Palestinian Authority.
How the death toll in Gaza is recorded and why experts say it is likely an undercount - ABC News
This is what I talked about earlier. And this breakdown caused the temporary change in methodology.
I may have been a bit broad when I talked about this earlier, but this should provide clarity. There are layers of verification at the time of reporting. It can include people missing under the rubble. But it relies on people reporting it. And sometimes…entire families are buried.
This verifies what I said earlier.
The ABC analysed the data at the time and found only 16 duplicate records (6 were minor errors), 46 incorrect genders, 36 babies with no ID numbers, 56 with shorter-than-normal ID numbers which the MOH said were deliberately shorter as placeholders while they searched for for the original number.
As for more independent verification:
I can’t find the actual details of how the OHCHR verification process works: I had it last year, but googling is failing me now. But they do have an independent process of verification.
…Babale calling ME a liar is hilarious, LOL.
But you can see the empathy just dripping off every word he says.
You’ve been super-weird for most of this thread. But I’m blocking you now. Because you are sick in the head.
Or Israeli backed militias
It has been established fact for a while now that mother Theresa was, in fact, a bitch who got off on the suffering of others.
Interesting how Babale immediately accepted without question the word of the Israeli military when they said “gosh, we’re not just shooting civilians” but he’ll happily smear without merit a far more reputable source about independently confirmed events.
But then deflecting from, minimizing and outright lying about the death and suffering of others is kind of his jam.