I don’t need to speculate about what you’ll do when this war ends and Gaza and the Gazans are still there - I can just look at prior Israel threads from like, 2014, where posts from 30 IQ fuckwads like you are literally identical to posts from the current conflict. So you won’t even feel the need to address the way that none of your claims came true - you’ll just continue making indistinguishable posts with the same tired buzzword-filled arguments.
Expanding the quote:
Some prominent Israelis have also raised alarms. Ehud Olmert, a former prime minister, decried what he called the “cruel and criminal killing of civilians” and the starvation of Gaza as a government policy. Moshe Yaalon, a former military chief and defense minister, has warned for months of ethnic cleansing. Yair Golan, a former deputy chief of the military and leader of the Democrats, a left-leaning opposition party, caused a furor when he said the government was killing babies “as a hobby.”
I don’t know what all Jews think. But i have a close friend from college who is an ardent Zionist, lived in Israel for a few years, and has lots of friends still there.
Early in the war, he was staunchly behind Israel, and i held my tongue at his Sabbath dinner when the other spoke supportively of Israel. And others in his congregation clearly had family and other ties in Israel, as well. But i visited recently, and at the Sabbath evening service in his home (his whole congregation had gathered in honor of a just-married couple) the guy leading the prayers asked the congregation to pray for the Palestinians in Gaza (along with more traditional groups to be mentioned) and i overheard a bunch of chatter at the communal dinner about Israeli atrocities.
So yeah, anecdotally, the tenor is discussion among Jews has changed.
You aren’t the problem here, the NY Times is.
When an article claims that someone says something, and gives you a whole sentence describing what that person said, and then as part of that sentence they give you a two word “quote” that’s supposed to lend more credence to their summary of what the person said, I tend to assume they’re full of shit, or at least playing some kind of game.
In any case, Golan explained his statement many times, and like I said, Golan is based, I like what he has to say. He just needs to be more aware of the fact that as an Israeli politician during wartime, every word he says is being examined by the whole world through a microscope.
Says the person whose sole argument is to repeatedly post “LMAO” while claiming that things that have been openly happening and well-documented by multiple sources for over a year never happened.
Hmm… it is not news that there have been anti-war protests in Israel (some of which are violently cracked down on by the police)
but the vibe I get from that one article is more “Stop the war; free all hostages” than “the IDF and the government are a bunch of genocidal maniacs who will do anything to stay in power; let’s start at the top and chew our way down”. I do not know enough about Israeli politics to say what deals and promises the opposition is bringing to the table. [ETA I did find a piece by e.g. Ehud Barak (former PM) calling for massive civil disobedience in order to bring down the government— not sure what his triumphant return to politics is supposed to look like, though]
Here are a couple more 'self-hating Jews* pushing anti-semitic propaganda . /s
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide
(Both based in Israel, BTW).
How is this about “Jews”? That page belongs to Physicians for Human Rights. All I want to know about them is that they do not have any ties to Israeli politicians, Palestinian politicians, American politicians, etc.
It’s the Israeli branch of PHR that recently sounded the genocide alarm, so their members are presumably overwhelmingly Jewish.
For those who don’t know, B’Tselem is a well-respected Israeli human rights organization with an impeccable reputation for honesty and sound research. When the “mainstream” is rationalizing genocide, it’s hardly an insult to be called non-mainstream.
…among people who aren’t paying attention, maybe.
And this is the organization that Babale is quoting here (from Wikipedia, bolding mine):
NGO Monitor has been criticized by academic figures, diplomats, and journalists for allowing its research and conclusions to be driven by politics,[8][9][10] for not examining right-wing NGOs,[10] and for spreading misinformation.[11] NGO Monitor’s stated mission is to “end the practice used by certain self-declared ‘humanitarian NGOs’ of exploiting the label ‘universal human rights values’ to promote politically and ideologically motivated agendas”.[1] A number of academics have written that NGO Monitor’s aims and activities are political in nature.[10][12][9]
The organization’s leader, Gerald M. Steinberg, has reportedly worked for the Israeli Foreign Ministry and the Office of the Prime Minister while heading NGO Monitor.[13]
Oh, sorry, I thought we were ignoring whether someone is a racist and a homophobe if they said something true - I was just following your lead with the NonZionist guy.
Do you dispute the court testimony from the organization’s own members? Do you need me to find a different source describing the same court case so you don’t have to sully your eyeballs by following that link?
So, an Israeli court found that their claims were false because they conflicted with official IDF reports? And you expect anyone to take this seriously?
Nope, that’s not the part I am talking about.
In Israeli quote, Btselem admitted that they don’t actually have anything except hearsay for any of the claims they make. Someone tells them something, they talk to a couple people, and then they repeat it as fact.
And you expect anyone to take this seriously?
Explain to me why we shouldn’t take people talking to Btselem “seriously”, or why you think these people are inherently untruthful.
After all, “someone says something, talk to other people who might have witnessed the same thing” is not only how most journalism has been done for ages, but it’s also how most actual police investigations go. Additional support is always welcome, of course, but difficult to obtain in an active war zone.
What, exactly, would constitute reliable proof to you of wrongdoing?
“Loyal” IDF soldiers, not the ones co-opted by the suicide cult that thinks Palestinians are humans with rights?
Sad that I have to say this, but the above is sarcasm. Because I started off defending Israel in this discussion.
Yes, eyewitness reports are the usual starting place for news. There’s nothing unusual about that.
And we have a lot of eyewitness reports, from a lot of people. There are the MSF doctors who say that one day they saw a lot of guys come in with wounds to their testicles, and it couldn’t have been a coincidence. The doctors who say they saw a lot of children shot in the head. The aid workers who said they saw soldiers shooting at unarmed civilians. The soldiers who say they were told to shoot at unarmed civilians. And yes, reports from Palestinians, too.
Yahweh: @Babale, you’re a devout Jew. A true Champion for the Promised Land. But the soldiers in your country ARE committing genocide.
Babale: You’re not my God. Fuck off. I only trust the word of El.
If he even comments on this it will be with a sneer of “tankie” and some other stuff.
At the beginning, he was saying that it’s unfortunate that there is collateral damage. Now he’s engaging in – at best – willful ignorance and denial of any - ANY - source that corroborates that there are in fact violations of human rights being perpetrated by the Israeli military.
I wonder why he’s in SoCal and not doing his part in sniping kids and people desperately trying to get ahold of a bag of flour.
Do you always debate caricatures rather than real people? I’m about as secular as they come.
It’s funny to me that you think Betselem repeating whatever propaganda Hamas Ministry of Health people tell them is equivalent to the literal word of God, though.
It is exceedingly terrible that there is so much collateral damage. That’s why even when it means they lose the war, most groups don’t fight the way Hamas does. But when you care that little about your own people, and when useful idiots in the West are lining up to defend you by making claims that you yourself aren’t even making, like denying that Hamas uses human shields - what’s stopping you?