Fuck France, and Fuck the French!

The BBQ Pit
1

OK, just got back from a ski trip. Couple of quick notes before I start my rant proper.

  1. I’ve lived in the UK for 6 years. I’ve traveled all over Europe many times.
  2. I’ve skied in France 3 times before, been to Paris several times, and been to other parts of France multiple times as well.
  3. I am about as far from an ‘Ugly American’ as it gets. I don’t speak French at all well, but I do try, and I am always very polite when brutalizing someone else’s language.
  4. I am a big guy (6’4" and 220lbs) and always have been.
  5. I am a good skiier, and go to ski resorts to Ski, not to party or act stupid.

So here’s the rant:
Why the fuck are the French so stupidly arrogant, unhelpful, rude, ugly, stinky, miserable cunts all the time? No one else in the world, or at least the parts I’ve been to, are such assholes, or so cocky without any reason to be.

Incident 1:
Three of us are sitting at a table for 8 just outside a snack bar. We’re waiting for members 4,5, and 6 of our group, and one of us has gone to use the loo. Young man walks up, MOVES our ski kit off of one seat, doesn’t say a word, then sits down. Just as I am saying something to him, the rest of his fucking clan of mutants (5 of them) take the other available seats. When I ask them to move, politely, saying we are waiting for our friends, they start babbling French at us; my mate who speaks some French asks them again, and gets a blank look and a flat refusal to move.

Incident 2:
At a SKI resort, called Les Arcs 1950, owned by Interwest and somewhat resembling a Walt Disney version of an Alpine resort, we went to 6 different restauraunts at 12:30 in our ski kit and none of them would serve us. Sample conversation:
Girlfriend asks them ‘can you seat 4’ in French.
Hostess says ‘two minutes’
Girlfriend gets the rest of us to walk up the stairs from the bar (What fucking pinhead built this place? Restaurant up two flights of stone stairs in a SKI RESORT? Have these fucking idiots actually never worn ski boots?) including one of our group of 4 who has just done serious injury to his Achilles tendon in an accident and is clearly limping. NO ONE lets us past; we have to wait for mobs - none of whom are wearing ski kit IN A FUCKING SKI RESORT! - go skipping past us and pushing us out of their way on the stairs
Ask hostess how long now? And are told - we are fully booked. No sorry, no apologies. When Girlfriend has a bit of a go and says ‘you said two minutes!’ hostess says ‘i meant two minutes to deal with the other lady before you, before I could tell you we’re fully booked.’ Mate who speaks some French has a go and tells bimbette the hostess that our friend walked up the stairs with an injury. She just shrugs and walks away. I’ve never been so close to doing violence in a public place as that fucking minute.

This is after two other restaurants who refused to seat us because they ‘were full’ in spite of clearly having tables available and one restaurant that refused to seat us because we were WEARING SKI KIT IN A SKI RESORT!

Incident 3:
On the TGV from Bourg to Paris, idiot the 4th is in charge of the bar car. I wait 40 minutes as he takes his leisurely time setting up his little domain perfectly. I wait patiently while he serves the queue in front of me. I say in my best broken French ‘un cafe au lait and du pain au chocolat s’vous plait’. He starts making me two hot chocolates. I say - pardon, m’sieur, I asked for 2 pain au chocolate and un cafe au lait. He says ‘wei’. He then serves me 2 hot chocolates and a coffee with no milk. I say, in English, NO - that is not what I asked for, and have to literally hold up the pain au chocolat on the counter, hold up 2 fingers, then ask for milk. He spoke English to the two women in front of me, as well. He then attempts to charge me again for the pain au chocolat, and I say no, I have already paid more than that at which point he slaps a 5 Euro note ON TOP OF MY FUCKING FOOD! and turns to the next customer.

Incident 4:
Apparently, a 6’4" bloke with a ski bag in bright red, a snowboard bag in black, a red and black rucksack, and a bright orange jacket becomes invisible to the asshole French. I was shoved out of the way, stepped on, and shouted at simply getting into the queue to board the Eurostar. When I finally turned to one asshole who had just shoved me out of the way and asked him ‘Am I fucking invisible or something?’ I felt a little bit better, but I still found myself imagining fondly the idiot being beaten to death with skiis for being so ghod-damn rude.

This is it - I will never take the fucking Eurostar again (it’s bad enough they moved the bloody thing all the way across the other side of London from me), and if the Girlfriend forces me to go to France ever again, I will drive. At least then I will be insulated from the vast majority of the smelly, rude, arrogant, stupid, assholes who seem to populate the bulk of France. But the point is - there are far better places I will spend my money in the future populated with people I actually enjoy getting to know about their culture. The French can take their biggest, crustiest stick of stale bread and shove it sideways up their snobby arrogant stupid asses.

2

Hmmm… Pretty broad brush you’re painting with there mate. Yeah, you got some idiots, but there’s idiots everywhere. And yes, some of them are in the service industry. You got unlucky. The French aren’t all like that. I live just outside Paris, work just outside Paris, and take the Eurostar twice a month to go to London and back (which is now ideally and supremely convenient for me), and the worst experience I’ve had, (and I’m including when I was a newcomer to this country where the most French I spoke was “oui”, “non”, “merci”, “s’il vous plait”, and “un café sil vous plait”, and I could count to about 10) was a snotty waitress in a café near Parc de Luxembourg, whom, having initially spoken to us in French (and gotten replies in French), overheard Bonzer and I talking in English and started with the rude “I’m going to do you a favour and speak in my crap English to you, despite the fact that at least one of you speaks decent French”. She soon stopped once all my responses to her were in French.

You got unlucky, and I’m sorry that your trip was marred by rude idiots, but puh-lease, not everyone on this side of La Manche is like that. Maybe I’ve been lucky, but even that proves that you’re painting with a stupidly broad brush there. Rather like the French suggesting that all Americans are arrogant and rude… Non?

3

There’s ya problem/s.

You’re a snowboarder, and even the French know what sort of cunts snowboarders are.

You committed a cardinal sin by your lack of colour co-ordination. Upsets the French terribly when you wreck the ambience like that.

I hope you’ve learned your lessons well. :smiley: :smiley:

4

Actually, I am both a snowboard cunt and a two-plank wank - a double threat! And since my snowboard / ski outfit is orange and black all over, I don’t think I was that outrageously dressed.

I was actually better dressed than the majority of Frenchmen out there on the piste who seem solidly locked into 80’s ski attire and bad attitudes.

Bollocks. Two of our group spoke French. Two of our group were English. My grlfriend’s brother, who was skiing with us, has been a ski guide at Les Arcs for 2 years. I was incredibly polite and humble until about the fourth time someone shoved me, was rude to me, attempted to overcharge me, or attempted to abuse my girlfriend, at which point I lost it a bit, but I was so far from the ‘arrogant, rude American’ that it wasn’t even funny. This wasn’t bad luck, or just a bad trip, or even just me in a bad mood - this was something completely other. This was enough to make me think that the cliches have become cliches because they are TRUE.

I think it’s more your luck has been good rather than mine has been bad - it seems to me “Polite Frenchmen” is more the exception rather than the rule, and that is based not just on this trip but many many incidents over the years I’ve lived 26 miles away from the French and the multiple times I’ve traveled there.

5

OP alludes to some possible language issues. The best experience I had in France was at a café where I talked to my traveling companions in English and when it came time to order, I did so in French. The gal behind the counter was so delighted that I spoke to her in her language! BTW, I got the best piece of quiche there, with a chocolate crepe that would have raised the dead. But I digress.

The worst experience I had in France was at a hotel where I was trying to get an ice pack for a traveling companion who had a swollen ankle. The guy was a total prick. I really should have demanded to talk to his supervisor to ream him a new asshole. Being the ugly American in that situation would have been a pleasure but I didn’t want them to pull any shit because we had to stay there, you know?

I don’t think it was the language or even the accent. In both cases, I’m pretty sure my French was 95%+ accurate—natives have told me I speak it pretty well. No, it was probably just that in big cities, people sometimes get sick of dealing with tourists and whatnot and you could have the same experience in New York or anywhere else.

But there is that “sampling” factor, that the OP happened to run into all the jerks in France. And sometimes there’s a timing factor. Depending on when you go, e.g. if they’re coming up on a vacation and they’re worn out, you could also see them at their worst.

The French do seem to have a polarizing effect…some report that they’re wonderful, accomodating, etc. Others agree with the OP.

6

To answer your question helpfully, sometimes, just sometimes, stereotypes and generalisations have a basis in some sort of reality.

IOW, that old adage that the French are rude and arrogant fuckers…it’s gotta have come from somewhere, and maybe you were unfortunate enough to have landed smack dab in the middle of the Breeding Kennels for Rude and Arrogant Frenchies on your recent trip.

Que?

:stuck_out_tongue:

7

I spent a long weekend in Paris looking for a rude tosser to back up my prejudices. Finally found one at the Eiffel Tower behind the ticket counter, who clearly hated tourists and loved shrugging, scowling, and saying “bouf” to anyone’s enquiry, which is a bit of a problem in her job… but I was crushingly disappointed that everyone else was incredibly friendly, helpful and polite. Fuck them for ruining my stereotype, the French cunts.

ETA: the people I met in Guadeloupe were a bunch of rude fuckers though. They mustn’t yet have received the memo from Paris.

8

In the dozen or so times I’ve been to France, I’ve had 1 good experience - in a hotel in Cap D’ Antibe, I called the gendamerie on a pervert wanking off outside the hotel whilst he was watching a young mother change her children’s clothes after leaving the beach. I got to see him arrested and carted away. The pervert was English, however, so my pleasure was somewhat limited.

Every single trip to France, no matter how lovely or beautiful the weather, or how lovely and beautiful the location, how great the company, or even how good the food, has been marred by the French.

Thanks but no thanks - I’d rather go to Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, or Italy if I want to go to the mountains, or Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Morocco, Israel, or Egypt for beaches and diving. All of the above have friendlier people, better services, and usually are cheaper. I’ll get my French food here in London and they can take the whole rest of their country, fold it all into sharp corners, and ram it directly up their own arses.

9

Right, stereotypes don’t get to be stereotypes by being wildly inaccurate and baseless.

E.g. “Women are so emotional!” Nobody will stand up and say, “You know, now that I think about it, I’ve never known an emotional woman, any more than I’ve ever known a cat to bark. I’m afraid I can’t identify with that statement at all. Where do you come up with that?”

Back in about 1943, my dad was somewhere with the USN and they had to complete a project with the French military. “Sometimes, you’d ask them to do something and you had the feeling they didn’t hear you, but you knew they did,” he said. Right, we’re over there on their behalf but…

OTOH national pride and all that aren’t peculiar to France.

10

Didn’t say they were.

Most countries of the world however are generally keen and welcoming to visitors from foreign climes, and will try to accomodate them (in many cases bend over backwards) when the tourists bung up the local language as they are so apt to do.

Why do the French then have such a reputation for being arseholes? And why do such labels tend to be absent when referring to other tourist destinations, regardless of the local lingo?

11

It’s got nothing to do with pride (national or otherwise), unless the French pride themselves on being rude arrogant assholes. I’ve seldom see anyone in France be welcoming to Foreigners, except very rarely in the countryside. Forget about it in Paris.

12

I work with several french people and share an office with one of them. They’ve all been great, so I can’t say that the stereotype holds up for them.

I’ve been to Paris several times and never had an issue…well except for once, on the way back from a group trip. there was a really rude cashier at one of those bus stop rest area eateries. But then, the tour group my wife and i were in was filled with some of the most obnoxious, loud, idiotic Americans ever born. So maybe that lady filled the stereotype of the french, but it was probably because our group filled the ugly american stereotype. (or maybe she was just having a bad day…who knows…she’s only as human as the rest of us).

I don’t like going on tours with lots of other americans because of that trip. the missus and i were so embarrassed by our tour mates we spent most of the days in Paris going around by ourselves. The last time i went to Paris a year ago I went with some canadians.

Well, 2 of my french coworkers once asked me if i’d ever been to france. When I mentioned Paris they both said almost in unison… “Paris…Ha! Thats not really going to France!”. I guess its like a foreigner saying he’s seen America afer only going to new york.

13

I live with the French, I work with the French. I shop in French supermarkets, bank in a French bank, use the French public transport system and interact with French people multiple times on a daily basis, in a variety of situations, and with people from all walks of life. I’ve found “rude Frenchman” to be the exception rather than the rule. Yeah, there are rude arseholes over here, but they’re rude to everyone, regardless of whether you’re French, German, English or Chinese. You get arseholes like that everywhere, not just in France. If I’ve been “lucky”, I’ve had one hell of a streak.

The people (as a whole) that you’re calling rude, arrogant arseholes who are unwelcoming to foreigners are the same people who welcomed me, have treated me as one of their own, have helped me out when I’ve been in rough spots (and I’ve had a couple) and whom I count as friends, colleagues, mentors etc etc. And this includes people born and bred in Paris (who are the ones thought to be the rudest of the lot).

Sorry you seem to find the arseholes.

14

Your poor mother!

15

Thanks for your kind thoughts, and I am a bit jealous you’ve found France so much more welcoming than I have - I’ve given France and the French more than a few opportunities to change my mind, and I honestly tried for years to enjoy France and the French.

It just doesn’t happen, and ever trip seems to grind this into me even more. In spite of French co-workers, and all of my efforts to learn the language (which is still poor, I’m the first to admit) maybe the French dislike me for some reason, maybe I am actually being an ugly American and just don’t know it, but the fact of the matter is this: considering I’ve had fantastic times traveling and living abroad in lots of other countries that welcomed me and did all the wonderful things you’re speaking about above, but have never had anything like you’ve described above happen to me in in France, I will just go ahead and go to places that make me happy in the future, rather than fight through travels I don’t enjoy and make myself miserable going to a place I actively dislike and meeting people I cannot seem to get along with.

Contrapuntal - She was quite the Amazon, my mother :slight_smile:

16

I’ve also skied in France (Alpe d’Huez, Deux Alpes, Trois Vallees) and I’ve never had any trouble with rudeness, despite being both a snowboarder and not knowing more than a few words of French. Actually if anything they were notably personable and friendly. Try Tignes and stay at Les Campanules–great food. :slight_smile:

17

I used to travel to France on business all the time from Germany, and not just to Paris. I traveled to Strasbourg, Bordeaux, Marseilles and Lyons as well. I never had any serious altercations, and the only minor ones were with waitstaff in the more touristy places. Sometimes I think “rude French waiter” is redundant, but most are just working slobs like the rest of us, trying to get through the day.

18

I don’t know if there’s any truth to this but I’ve heard that you’re more likely to encounter the stereotypical rude French person in Paris and that people tend to be friendlier in the other parts of the country (although, judging from Gomiboy’s post, the skiing areas of the Alps also seem to have an enclave of assholes). For any Dopers who’ve been to France, is this the case? I’ve been considering going to Normandy and Brittany (which, technically, is a non-French part of France) and wonder if I, as an American, would likely encounter any of the same problems Gomiboy did.

19

That was certainly true for me, though I didn’t even think the Parisians were all that rude. Maybe I was expecting worse, I dunno. I found Normandy to be one of the most American friendly places I visited in Europe.

I would imagine the big city/small city rudeness differences are probably true the world over.

20

Well, I’ve met nice people in Paris and absolute bastards in Callais, so I dunno bout the whole Paris is the home of rude people stuff. There is an older man (hopefully now dead) behind a ticket booth at the ferry dock in Callais in 1994 that I’d like to smack around a bit. I ended up in the wrong terminal–I needed the hovercraft one. I was alone, young, almost no French, panicked about missing a connection in London. He was the very picture of uncaring bullheaded rudeness. I walked out of the station, found an outlying building with a woman in it–a woman who was kind and brisk and called a taxi for stupid, lost me and earned my undying gratitude.

So, while I can’t say fuck the French, I do know what you’re talking about. I think that most French don’t go out of their way to help strangers. Fair enough, except when the stranger really needs some help.

That hostess re the 2 minutes was completely out of line, as was the Eurostar wait staff. I love the Eurostar and have had great service on it. Sorry you had sucky service. Even I can get across that I want pain au chocolat–I live on that and croque monsieur while in France. Yum. (and mussels and wine).

The absolute rudest people I’ve had to deal with traveling were (2 separate occasions) the customs men coming back into UK. You’d think I was smuggling opium (yeah, me and my 3 kids–it’s a family business) or something. :rolleyes: