Fuck France, and Fuck the French!

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=acsenray]
This doesn’t answer my question, Gomi. Actually I think it would take someone a bit more acculturated to France to say so. It seems not unlikely that you might be expected to change out of your ski kit to have lunch. As I said, in Hong Kong it’s considered unacceptable to walk to the gym in your gym kit. As an outsider, I don’t think you can make assumptions about cultural norms.
[/quote]

I’m not making assumptions. I’ve been in France many many many times. Yes, they are more formal than England or America. Yes, they expect you to dress better for meals. But this was a Ski resort! In the alps! And not a really fancy one, either - Les Arcs is frequently considered the most ‘ski-focused’ of all the French resorts, rather than focused on food or apres-ski like many others.

@acsenray

You’ve eaten his cooking?

His recipes, yes. He hasn’t cooked for years, hence my objection. I’d prefer someone who actually cooks, rather than someone rambling around the world telling anecdotes of getting drunk and high and eating all sorts of weird stuff.

@ascenray

Actually, though, his current reputation is as a gourmand and a writer, not as a cook. I don’t think it necessarily takes a good cook to understand and evaluate good food.

I agree there. I just don’t think much of Anthony Bourdain or his books.

@Labrador Deceiver

Your ignorance on the subject is showing. Yes, some aspects of French cuisine are based on poverty, but not all of it. Not nearly as many as those of Italian cuisine, anyway.

Besides, you say that as if it is a bad thing. Most ethnic culinary traditions are derived from poverty, so saying that the French food suffers because of it is just silly.

And your claim that the French don’t emphasize fresh ingredients is laughable.

Really? Then why the heart-attack inducing amounts of cream, butter, cheese, and preserved meats in nearly every French meal? Why is it so difficult to get a green salad in France outside of Paris? Why do all of the greens involve some sort of frying or baking with the aforementioned cream and butter and cheese?

I vastly prefer modern British gastro-pub style cooking - fresh ingredients, simply made dishes, no heavy sauces or spices. Just good food made well, not discards dressed up and made into something else. Jamie Oliver-style food, if you will.

[Jolly_Roger]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
You give me one semi-attractive* French Bird - I give you 4 spielerfrauen football fans!

I’d take German girls over French ones any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

• = because she is French, of course
  [/QUOTE]

German chicks got bigger tits. I’ll give ya that one.

[Acsenray]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
But this was a Ski resort! In the alps! And not a really fancy one, either - Les Arcs is frequently considered the most ‘ski-focused’ of all the French resorts, rather than focused on food or apres-ski like many others.
[/quote]

This isn’t really answering the question, is it? The issue is, regardless of the location of the restaurant, were the other diners in skiing outfits and boots?

Just good food made well, not discards dressed up and made into something else. Jamie Oliver-style food, if you will.

Today’s bad-boy celebrity chef versus yesterday’s pretty-boy celebrity chef?

I’m imagining Jamie Oliver’s reaction to your evaluation of French cuisine.

[Autolycus]

Wait, this thread isn’t a joke? You’re seriously hating an entire country of people based on some bad touring experiences? I can understand the desire not to return there, but there’s quite a jump between “I had a bad time there so I won’t go back” to “Fuck the France and their little dogs too.” All that irrational hatred can’t be healthy…

I can only imagine the length this thread would be if it wasn’t dissing a country of which it’s currently hip to bash.

Oh, and that French woman is waaay hotter than those German soccer fans, especially the one on the left who looks like she soiled herself.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=acsenray]
This isn’t really answering the question, is it? The issue is, regardless of the location of the restaurant, were the other diners in skiing outfits and boots?
[/quote]

Yes, some were, but not the majority.

@acsenray

Today’s bad-boy celebrity chef versus yesterday’s pretty-boy celebrity chef?

Sure, considering you’re talking about one’s character and personality, and I’m talking about one’s food. I like much of the pretty boy’s food. I don’t like the bad-boy’s writing.

@ascenray

I’m imagining Jamie Oliver’s reaction to your evaluation of French cuisine.

Cheers, mate, thanks a lot? He is English, after all, and I’m saying I very much like modern English cooking and his cooking as well.

@Autolycus

Wait, this thread isn’t a joke? You’re seriously hating an entire country of people based on some bad touring experiences? I can understand the desire not to return there, but there’s quite a jump between “I had a bad time there so I won’t go back” to “Fuck the France and their little dogs too.” All that irrational hatred can’t be healthy…

Damn it - did you have to ask that? Now my whole enraged act is all silly-looking.

It’s actually a bit of both. I’m serious about the not going back there for pleasure thing, but not serious about folding up the whole country into all sharp points and jamming it up the next Frenchman’s arse, if that makes any sense. And a few of my comments have been somewhat tongue in cheek. And while I don’t like a lot of heavy French cooking and think the French are hugely up their own arses in a lot of ways, I’m not quite ready to flush the whole of the country down the shitter in a single act of pique. Also, because of my situation, I’m sure that I will be back in France in the very near future and probably wind up going on holiday there again as well.

I was quite pissed off on Sunday when all this crap service happened; I was actually damn close to getting in a fistfight at the Eurostar terminal at Gare Du Nord with the prick who shoved me out of his way, last straw and all that, and the girlfriend actually grabbed my arm to calm me down a bit. Far less upset now.

ETA - I am also serious about never taking the Eurostar skiing again. It’s massively inconvenient; I’d rather drive even if it takes 12 hours.

@Autolycus

Oh, and that French woman is waaay hotter than those German soccer fans, especially the one on the left who looks like she soiled herself.

Are you mad? One semi-attractive Frenchwoman versus FOUR football-mad German hotties? You must be delusional.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]

Really? Then why the heart-attack inducing amounts of cream, butter, cheese, and preserved meats in nearly every French meal? Why is it so difficult to get a green salad in France outside of Paris? Why do all of the greens involve some sort of frying or baking with the aforementioned cream and butter and cheese?

[/QUOTE]

Let me get this straight. You think that the French historically eschew fresh ingredients in favor of a product that, without refrigeration, spoils in a matter of hours? They like butter, cream and cheese in French haute cuisine because it is rich, decadent, has a great mouth feel, and tastes damn good.

I have no idea why you have had trouble finding a salad outside of Paris. Ever heard of Salade niçoise? Do you think it comes from Paris? The French have been focusing on locally grown produce forever, and wonder why Americans are just now coming around. Like I said, the idea that the French don’t care about fresh produce is laughable.

ETA: I love the dig at “preserved meats” from a guy who professes to love Italian food. You’re losing credibility really quickly here.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
Let me get this straight. You think that the French historically eschew fresh ingredients in favor of a product that, without refrigeration, spoils in a matter of hours? They like butter, cream and cheese in French haute cuisine because it is rich, decadent, has a great mouth feel, and tastes damn good.
[/quote]

OK, your opinion, to which you are fully entitled to have. I prefer things that taste of things other than cream, cheese, and butter, thanks very much, as well as occasionally things that are not decadent. The cooked dishes don’t spoil in minutes, in spite of what you say, and it’s not like it’s that hard to source green vegetables and fresh fruit in winter in a modern country.

First thing I cooked when I got home? Pad thai, will all fresh ingredients except the noodles and the prawns, all locally sourced from greenhouses. Thai’s the best food in the world in my humble opinion.

I have no idea why you have had trouble finding a salad outside of Paris. Ever heard of Salade niçoise? Do you think it comes from Paris? The French have been focusing on locally grown produce forever, and wonder why Americans are just now coming around. Like I said, the idea that the French don’t care about fresh produce is laughable.

I never said they don’t care, I said it was difficult to get. And yes, I’ve heard of salade nicoise. Isn’t that tuna fish on top of lettuce with a boiled egg and cherry tomatoes? :rolleyes:

And perhaps I struggled to find salad because it was winter in the Savoie? And since the locally-sourced produce of which the French are justifiably proud means it’s harder to get a salad in the winter? Do I have to do all of your thinking when you’re trying to undermine my argument?

ETA: I love the dig at “preserved meats” from a guy who professes to love Italian food. You’re losing credibility really quickly here.

I didn’t say I loved Italian food, I said it was better than French.

And like I had much credibility with you in the first place to lose. You started this thread supporting the French. Did I honestly ever have a chance at changing your mind?

[Acsenray]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
Cheers, mate, thanks a lot? He is English, after all, and I’m saying I very much like modern English cooking and his cooking as well.
[/quote]

What I’m suggesting – and excuse me if I was being too subtle earlier – is that Jamie Oliver is as likely to think you as much of an ignorant asshole, as regarding your characterization of French cuisine, as we do.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=acsenray]
What I’m suggesting – and excuse me if I was being too subtle earlier – is that Jamie Oliver is as likely to think you as much of an ignorant asshole, as regarding your characterization of French cuisine, as we do.
[/QUOTE]

Subtle? Thought it was just being dim.

Jamie Oliver do a lot of Provencale cooking does he? You’d find it strange that an English chef, who promotes local cuisine and locally sourced ingredients, as well as simple food, would find comments about French cooking being too complex and rich ignorant? Or that expressing a personal preference makes one ignorant?

I also think it’s best to speak for myself rather than prop up lame arguments with references to non-existent groupthink. YMMV.

And finally, tongue-in-cheek is obviously being lost on the less intelligent. Or am I being too subtle?

[Liberal]

Honestly? You’re being too everything.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=Liberal]
Honestly? You’re being too everything.
[/QUOTE]

Back to defend your statements? Or just another drive-by?

[Labrador_Deceiver]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
OK, your opinion, to which you are fully entitled to have. I prefer things that taste of things other than cream, cheese, and butter, thanks very much, as well as occasionally things that are not decadent. The cooked dishes don’t spoil in minutes, in spite of what you say, and it’s not like it’s that hard to source green vegetables and fresh fruit in winter in a modern country.
[/QUOTE]

So you don’t like it. What does that have to do with the availability of fresh ingredients in France? It isn’t hard to source green vegetables in winter there. I can only assume you visited the country blindfolded.

First thing I cooked when I got home? Pad thai, will all fresh ingredients except the noodles and the prawns, all locally sourced from greenhouses. Thai’s the best food in the world in my humble opinion.

So you’re upset that the Alps aren’t in Thailand? What is your point?

I never said they don’t care, I said it was difficult to get. And yes, I’ve heard of salade nicoise. Isn’t that tuna fish on top of lettuce with a boiled egg and cherry tomatoes?

Yes, it is. In other words, it consists solely of fresh ingredients. Why are you rolling your eyes?

And perhaps I struggled to find salad because it was winter in the Savoie? And since the locally-sourced produce of which the French are justifiably proud means it’s harder to get a salad in the winter? Do I have to do all of your thinking when you’re trying to undermine my argument?

In other words, they put such a premium on fresh, locally grown ingredients that certain restaurants don’t want something that tastes terrible in comparison flown in from halfway across the world. You’re on a roll here.

And like I had much credibility with you in the first place to lose. You started this thread supporting the French. Did I honestly ever have a chance at changing your mind?

About the food or the people?

[Liberal]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
Back to defend your statements? Or just another drive-by?
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t made any statement that needs any defense.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
So you don’t like it. What does that have to do with the availability of fresh ingredients in France? It isn’t hard to source green vegetables in winter there. I can only assume you visited the country blindfolded.
[/quote]

Greenhouse technology is now beyond the French? Or did they all go on strike? Have you tried to get a salad in France in winter? Not the easiest of things. And what you do get was not grown locally.

So you’re upset that the Alps aren’t in Thailand? What is your point?

That good, wholesome food that doesn’t require a heart bypass after eating it, is not that hard to source even in winter except in France. We do have winter here in England, too, y’know.

Yes, it is. In other words, it consists solely of fresh ingredients. Why are you rolling your eyes?

Tuna is a natural product of France then and fresh? It came out of a can.

In other words, they put such a premium on fresh, locally grown ingredients that certain restaurants don’t want something that tastes terrible in comparison flown in from halfway across the world. You’re on a roll here.

Or that they’re too lazy to build a fucking greenhouse so they can actually have green vegetables in the winter from local sources, maybe? It’s not like they’re battling with multiple feet of snow in winter like some places I could mention.

About the food or the people?

Either, I assume.

[GomiBoy]

[QUOTE=Liberal]
I haven’t made any statement that needs any defense.
[/QUOTE]

OK, sparky, whatever floats your boat.

[Acsenray]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
Jamie Oliver do a lot of Provencale cooking does he? You’d find it strange that an English chef, who promotes local cuisine and locally sourced ingredients, as well as simple food, would find comments about French cooking being too complex and rich ignorant?
[/quote]

Logic 101. Final Exam. Question 1.

Gomi’s Proposition: Jamie Oliver is an English chef.

Gomi’s Conclusion: Jamie Oliver will agree with the statement that “All French cuisine, especially the coffee, is based on pride and poverty - they didn’t have the money to buy good ingredients, and refused to be seen to be bad at anything, so had to attempt to make good food with crap. It explains a lot about the nation, really - they eat crap that most other nations would throw away as offal and think it’s ambrosia.”

Analyze this inference applying your knowledge of logical reasoning.

Or that expressing a personal preference makes one ignorant?

Expression of a personal preference is, “I prefer English food to French food.” or “Generally speaking, I don’t like French food.”

This statement –

All French cuisine, especially the coffee, is based on pride and poverty - they didn’t have the money to buy good ingredients, and refused to be seen to be bad at anything, so had to attempt to make good food with crap. It explains a lot about the nation, really - they eat crap that most other nations would throw away as offal and think it’s ambrosia.

– is not the expression of personal preference. It is the ostentatious display of supremely self-satisfied ignorance so deep and complex that it would take a doctoral thesis to analyze all the layers of misinformation and misconception.

And, really, if all your purpose was was to was gyrate on the oh-so-tired theme of “I hate everything French!” then obviously we have found it less entertaining than trying to make you back up your unfounded conclusions.

[Acsenray]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
OK, sparky, whatever floats your boat.
[/QUOTE]

Are you seriously suggesting that Liberal suggested a proposition that needs backing up?

[Labrador_Deceiver]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
Greenhouse technology is now beyond the French? Or did they all go on strike? Have you tried to get a salad in France in winter? Not the easiest of things. And what you do get was not grown locally.
That good, wholesome food that doesn’t require a heart bypass after eating it, is not that hard to source even in winter except in France. We do have winter here in England, too, y’know.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said, you must have been walking around with a blindforld on if you couldn’t find a fucking salad on your trip to France. Either that, or you were eating at Le Hotdog Stand.

Tuna is a natural product of France then and fresh? It came out of a can.

No it didn’t. It came out of the ocean. There is quite a bit of that around France. Claiming that Nicoise Salad sucks due to canned tuna is akin to claiming that Pad Thai sucks because it came pre-frozen.

Or that they’re too lazy to build a fucking greenhouse so they can actually have green vegetables in the winter from local sources, maybe? It’s not like they’re battling with multiple feet of snow in winter like some places I could mention.

I’m sure that must be it. Surely, it couldn’t be that green vegetables are readily available all over France this time of year, and you are just trying to bolster what remains of a point you have left.

[Angua]

[QUOTE=GomiBoy]

I never said they don’t care, I said it was difficult to get.

[/QUOTE]

Now I know you’re on a different fucking planet!

In my fridge right now – pears, grapes, clementines, and a load of fresh vegetables. The fruit, on the whole, yes has been imported by road/rail, but the veggies? All fresh, locally grown produce bought from the market in the village. Yeah, there’s seasonal variation which means that oh no shock horror I can’t get limp watery iceberg all year round, but you know, big whoop. It just means that I get fresher vegetables cause they haven’t been imported from somewhere, and they taste bloody good too as they haven’t been forced in a greenhouse. Yeah, you might find it harder to get a green salad to your exact specifications in winter in Savioe, but that’s just this thing known as “seasonality” and “optimum growing seasons” – frankly your green salad’ll taste better in June than it will in February, and with good reason…
Great, now I’m jonesing for the pan fried duck breast at Au Père Louis damn you!

Edited to add

I had a green salad at lunch today…

[sqweels]

Boy, I sure admire people who are so cultured and well-travelled that they know all there is to know about what to hate.