especially during a contraction.
I think the part about avoiding “certain words and phrases” relates back to Hubbard’s teaching about how fetuses in the womb could hear and understand what was being said outside (cite about 1/3 of the way down the page) and would take comments personally especially if they were named after the father and heard the mother badmouthing the father. One anecdote is how he claimed a person who had a rash on his rear misheard - back when he was a fetus - when his mother was asking for “aspirin” and registered it as “ass burn.” I expect they probably think that since childbirth is so dramatic/traumatic, anything said during that time has a particularly strong effect.
I’m sorry, but this is the dumbest thing I’ve read in awhile. If this is the level at which Scientology operates, god save us all.
Yep-that unexplained rash…damn my mother and her lack of articulation!
:rolleyes:
It does make them sound like a cult of Henry Higginses. “The rash on the ass was caused by the hash.” “The pool cue of the emu falls mainly on the Xenu.”
Best “Bang for your Buck”, so to speak.
"Well, your son survived getting turned upside down, having his head sucked into a narrow tunnel, continual confusing terrifying contractions of the entire realm of existence he’d known so far, and being violently forced headfirst from a warm and secure total darkness with the constant sound of a beating heart to reassure him into a place of bright light and giants and aloneness just fine… but something else happened that made him gay… Mrs. Lewis, by any chance did you yell ‘Cocksucker!’ while delivering? Because remember, newborns understand English perfectly and that could well have given him a subconscious life mission, just like when Mr. Laios’s wife yelled “Motherfucker!”
I saw the posters with Scientology quotes that were being carted into their home, and I have to say my creepometer went off the charts.
::shrug::
They’re both adults. Let them decide what they want to believe. As long as they don’t hurt anyone, my philosophy is live and let live.
Oh, I don’t think trying to be quiet when giving birth will hurt anyone. I just think the religion is pretty fucking loony, that the leaders of it hide this by making people pay for bits and pieces of the knowledge over years, and that the organization can be terribly harmful.
But yeah, sure, go ahead and do what you want when you’re giving birth. I’m worried about what’ll happen to Holmes if she gets post-partum depression and Cruise tells her to get audited and take vitamins to cure it.
Sampiro --well said! (and funny as hell, too).
I don’t know which gender I would pity more as Tom’s spawn, male or female?
In this case, it means that her tummy is huge and triangular. Do pyramids figure into the $ceino mythos?
Yes, but your baby didn’t have a head like Katie’s baby will, did it? That poor girl.
Yes but if you willing agreeded to be ball whacked 9 months from now, I don’t see why ‘no swearing’ couldn’t be part of the deal.
I found it to feel like I was taking the most gigantic, painful, constipated dump of my life.
I didn’t have childbirth classes or an epidural with any of my three. I was fairly quiet for the first one. I was pretty quiet with the second one. I tried yelling just for the hell of it with the third one, and it was actually MORE difficult because I didn’t have as much energy to push. I shut up and the little blob of mucus popped out in a few minutes. (Little blob of mucus is now in 1st grade.)
The first kid, I didn’t have TIME for an epidural. The second and third I figured I’d done it once, no reason to bother with an epidural this time, so I told the nurse, “I don’t want an epidural, but I don’t want to care.” She put Nubane in my IV - she said she called it “No-brain” because that’s what happened to women after they took it. 
IMO the Nubane helped a LOT because when a contraction ended, I was so relaxed and loopy that I just didn’t give a rat’s ass when the next one was going to be. I think a lot of the difficulty women have with giving birth is that they’re so worried about how much the next contraction is going to hurt, they stay tense and their bodies don’t get ANY downtime from intense strain.
Anyhow, what it boils down to is that giving birth without yelling or swearing is possible, and (IMO) actually EASIER than making a lot of noise. HOWEVER: forcing a woman to stay quiet is fucking asinine. If she wants to yell “YOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL” while the little angel is ripping her poor hoo-hoo to shreds, more power to her.
I’m glad I’m looking after the office alone over lunch to snigger into my hands about that
Does Scientology teach about the silent passing of kidney stones for men? 
When I was delivering one of my two wonderful children, I had a lovely conversation with my doctor. I asked her if there were any differences in deliveries in the demographic. IE: which race was the noisiest.
She said that in her experience, the women who came from a very tight family where the men have the say (and the women have none or little.) and usually have 10-20 women in the room to help her with the delivery were the loudest. Women that during the 9 months of doctor visits would barely say a word to the doctor about anything and her husband handled all parts of the convo.
She said these women let loose in the delivery room like you wouldn’t believe. I asked her how she handled it as a doctor and staff kept their presence to the minimum. She just said, " I walk in, check to see how far she is along and walk out until the big show."
She stayed in our room, both times, until the baby came out. After the second one, we realized that our room was the staff party room ( eveyrone was hiding from the awful mom’s in our room.)
Why yes, I had an epidural. Good stuff. I’d have another baby in a heartbeat because I loved the whole pregnancy and delivery stuff.
/and the muscles you use are the exact ones you use to have a big poop.
Hamadryad -your experience sounds much like mine.
#1 baby-no epidural. Didn’t think to ask for one (this was 1989 and they weren’t as common), plus had old school nasty OB (he was one of 4 OBs, I just happened to go into labor when he was on call–he was a jerk; he’s retired now.) I also felt like I was constipated to the nth degree with her.
#2 baby- Different doc,no epi, but got Demerol in my IV. very nice. This one was 10 lbs, 4 oz and 22 inches long. And yes, it hurt. No C-secxn. Was told later that I didn’t get an epidural because I didn’t ask for one. Gee, thanks.
#3 baby-Yet a third doc (insurance change), got a pupendal block, no epidural. Baby faced the wrong way-face up, IMS. Also got more Demerol–Demerol is nice for me.
And I agree, screaming leaves you without energy to push. I wanted to keep my eyes closed but the nurses and doc kept yelling at me to open them. That bugged me-I felt I could concentrate more with them shut. But labor is hardly the time to muster a cogent argument. I survived. Katie will too.
Interesting about the women who don’t speak up etc–it sounds plausible.
Sig line? May I?
Shirley Ujest- Interesting your doc should say that.
With Ireland becoming more multicultural (and what with parents of Irish-born babies having automatic residence rights until a year or so ago) lots more non-Irish women are giving birth in Dublin.
Irish midwives are used to Irish women in labour- they generally don’t scream or swear, but usually ask for lots and lots of drugs. The Nigerian and Chinese ladies are known for screaming the place down, but don’t want drugs, while the Eastern European and Slavic ladies have a reputation for silence, stoicism and slapping their husbands when things get too much. Of course these are just generalisations- individual mileage varies.
I think the Co$ is a bunch of fruit loops, and while there is nothing wrong with wanting birthing to be a calm and pleasant environment for all concerned, people vary, so if she wants to scream, grunt, moan or swear, well, she should be free to do so without feeling like it will scar her child for life (which it won’t).
It’s going to look like a scene out of Rosemary’s Baby when she finally has that kid.
I’m not planning to have kids for a few years. But when I do eventually give birth, I plan to ask for lots and lots of drugs, and I am planning to swear like a drunk Russian sailor on payday without whores (thanks for that image, Sampiro ). I don’t like pain, and when things happen to me that I don’t like, I’m generally not very stoic about it. I don’t really think being stoic about unpleasantness is a virtue, either. I curse when I’m having trouble passing a big piece of poo, too.