Yes, impossible not to make enemies, IMHO. How does that alter our enemies common perception of us?
You are disagreeing with something I didn’t say, which furthermore would not have been the point even if I had said it.
Consequently, I commend to your readership the main thrust of what I did say (found in the last two paragraphs of my post above), to which your rebuttal is not germane.
Err… that should read, “our enemy’s common perception…”
I was going to start this thread if it wasn’t here already. This is directed towards two groups of people in Melbourne, where almost everyone I’ve come across except these ignorant assholes see the terrorist attack as totally horrendous.
First group - endless whining lefties whinging about how many bad things America has done in the past, as if this has fucking anything to do with what happened. They are always so scared to suggest that any ethnic group be dragged into the discussion as possible perpetrators, with kneejerk finger pointing, but with their very next breath they point the finger at the true Satan - America.
And then there’s the nice group of people (to repeatedly run over with a tank) number two: the fuckers from some socialist group who stood around my university library handing out leaflets with a photo of the burning WTC, followed by shit about this being the result of America’s actions in the past. I ripped a few of the posters down, but didn’t have the heart to kick this short girl’s head in, even when she smirked at the look of total horror in my eyes at the fact they were using this tragedy for their own pissant political means. It’s good to see what is really behind organisations like this, which claim to be about social justice, but have no heart whatsoever for innocent people who just happen to live in a country they dislike.
Here’s some news to both groups. We don’t know who did this, but there are plenty of clues, and if it’s traced to Bin Laden, this guy is not fighting for your socialist paradise - he does not give a shit about your trendy left wing politics, and he is not doing this in retaliation for any perceived American wrongs. All he wants to do is kill as many infidels as he can, and to cause as much damage to the western world as possible.
So here is what I didn’t have the guts to say to these two turkeys: FUCK YOU, and I hope not one person is influenced by your bullshit propoganda. And Fuck You all again.
Thank you.
I think I’m all angered out now. I’ve vented and vented til I cain’t vent no more. However, if I came across a kneejerk lefty who said America deserved this, I would fold him into a small package and shove him up his own ass.
I cannot believe somone is so stupid as to blame the Jews, or the Americans, or Muslims. This is was done by cruel, evil sociopaths, who don’t need ideology to inspire their crimes.
Matt_Mcl, suffice it to say that you have some really valid points, but I’m too worn out to debate them. I’ll just give you a hug until then. Another big hug to all who have had to endure cruel anti-Semitic comments.
The same. For all senses of the word “Semitic”.
Same here. Hugs to Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Um, well, I think you should be ashamed to be a liberal…
Crafter-Man?
As one conservative to another, let me simply state:
Shut the fuck up.
Let me preface this response by saying, my position is that there needs to be some retaliation for what has happened. I’m not one of the “nuke 'em” freaks and I certainly don’t think we deserved it.
However, I have to disagree with this part of your statement. Their leaders are telling their citizens to kill Americans under any circumstances. I don’t believe this is limited to these terrorist “cells” or Bin Laden’s trained soldiers. If you saw the videotape of the training of these soldiers, a lot of them are young boys. They are taught at an early age to hate Americans and they are told that violence is the only way to deal with Americans. Maybe I’m still too angry, but I don’t see them as people, rather, as evil creatures full of hate. They didn’t bomb a military base–which is bad enough, but that’s what is normally done in an attack–they wanted to kill as many people as possible. They could have taken out a lot of other buildings, but obviously the WTC had the largest number of people in it (as well as being a symbol of our prosperity and everything they hate about us). They hit below the belt. And, while I normally don’t believe in “an eye for an eye”, this is beyond anything that’s ever happened and I want them ALL to pay. If not, there will be a Osama Bin Laden, Jr. on his way to lead these cells to further hurt this country.
I just don’t buy the touchy-feely bullshit about “innocent citizens”. They didn’t care about ours.
I am getting pretty sick and tired of hearing how America brings all this on ourselves. Sure, we’ve done a lot of bad stuff in the past, but you don’t see Native Americans crashing planes int buildings. This country, while supporting Israel, has consistently looked for a peaceful resolution to the disputes in the Middle East, Iraq not withstanding. We could have turned their country into a sheet of radioactive glass if we had wanted to, but we stopped when Kuait was liberated, and Hussein’s means of counterattacking was destroyed.
It is the Palestinian “government” who does not want peace in Israel. What purpose would they have for existing then? They don’t want a peaceful coexistance with Israel–they want Israel, for themselves. I am not blaming the Palestinians for the WTC, it’s just that they are used as justification for every assault of any kind on the US.
To blame America for their lack of desire to reach any sort of resolution to this hatred is asinine, and those who do are asses.
Uh, sorry for the typos.
Note to self–try preview reply next time.
Many of you are expressing frustration at people who are trying to “put it all in perspective” and “understand it on its own terms” and all that. I understand, and I agree that the terrorist attacks cannot be justified or understood in any context except as murder. But maybe we can examine the fact that some people in the world are celebrating the attacks, and who feel they are just.
It hurt so much to see the people dancing in Nablus, and to hear the comments of the Egyptian “man-on-the-street” who looked straight into the camera and said that the US got what we deserved. It just made me so angry and sad.
I want to know why people feel this way. I have disagreed with certain things my government has done in the past. I think that we often act unilaterally in our own interest having less concern for others than we might. To say “we deserved it” or to blame ourselves is sickening, but perhaps we can at least look at our behavior in international matters and examine how it relates to our image in the rest of the world.
I hear a lot along the lines of “We’ll make enemies no matter what we do, so the hell with it”. I think that’s just an excuse not take others into account. I’m definitely not saying we should respond to terrorist attacks by surrendering and giving them what they want. I would just like to see us making a sincere effort to act multilaterally in the interests of the world at large more often so as not to engender so much hatred toward our government and our citizens.
Having said that, it will be a long time before I can forgive the people I’ve seen celebrating on TV the last couple of nights, their lives’ circumstances notwithstanding.
Crafter_Man? As a conservative, let me add to what John Corrado: Get bent.
Guin showed class and empathy. You showed assholish behavior.
Guin, let me assure you that people like this make me ashamed to be a conservative.
Fenris
and how can anyone even get to the place where they give a fuck about labels like “liberal” and “conservative” now anyhow.
(IOW agreement w/ John & Fenris)
…and gobear wins the “Hilarious Image of the Day” plaque and $10 gift certificate. 
Nice try. Were you not trying to tell us that it’s our fault? Now you’re backing up and claiming the government isn’t “At fault” for this cataclysm. So which is it? Do you have the guts to go ahead and say “You deserve it” which is what you so painfully are trying to avoid? If we back a government which “Starves Iraq” and “Supports Israel, which opresses innocent Palestineans”, didn’t we earn the pasting we got? You’re trying to say that without being offensive, but failing. In your view, the US oppressed them, which causes them to lash back in righteous fury.
Now, if I’ve missed something, could you please elaborate?
smooch
Thank you.
Personally, somedays, I’m ashamed to be a human.
You two are so sweet. Wanna go to the SDMB prom with me? I wouldn’t mind taking TWO dates?
Well, like you, I certainly don’t wish any harm to this twit’s children. I don’t know this person at all, but upon hearing this type of comment, I really think that I would have a hard time giving a happy damn about someone giving this jerk a kick in the teeth. As a matter of fact, I’ll offer to hold their coat while they’re doing it…