Fuck the 'Blame America First' assholes

The BBQ Pit
1

Three comments before the rant:

A: Please, leave the assholes spouting “Nuke the ragheads” for another thread (I think there’s three of 'em at the moment.) Can we all agree that these reprehensible troglodytes are an embarrassment to their species and then ignore them for the purposes of this one, single thread? It doesn’t matter what others are doing or have done. I wanna rant about one, specific thing.

B: Again, I’ve been stuck listening to talk radio all day (long story, not my idea). I realize that the morons I’m about to rant about are yahoos who are NOT indicitive of the Left-leaning half of the country. Let me be absolutely, totally clear: To my Doper brethren (and sisteren? :slight_smile: ) on the Left side of the aisle, I know these assholes DON’T represent you or your philosophies or beliefs. I am NOT trying to tar you with this brush.) I realize that they are to you as the “Nuke the Ragheads” types are to my POV.

C: No, <sigh>, I’m not trying to stifle their freedom of speech. I would oppose any laws banning the type of speech I’m about to rant about. But a consequence of free speech is that people will respond. Consider this my response.

I’m speaking of the asshole-ish “Blame America First (and Israel second)” crowd.

The fact that the US supports Israel does not make the attack “perfectly understandable, if regrettable.”

If you believe that “America and Israel must share the blame for this tragedy!”, then you must agree that a woman who wears short skirts is to blame for being raped.

No, this is not a “wake-up sign for Capitalist America and it’s Zionist puppetmasters that the world will no longer tolerate their corporate terrorism”

And the most obscene thing I’ve heard: Someone claimed that Bush did this (or allowed it to happen) as a method of increasing military funding, a crackdown on freedoms, etc… When the OKC bombing happened, a bunch of nutbars who’re (I’m ashamed to say) nominally on my side of the aisle said exactly the same thing about Clinton: “He let this happen so that he could take away our freedoms and institute more gun-grabbing!” (or the idiot at work who today who said that this all happened because of “Clinton’s incompetence”:rolleyes ). I wasn’t on the boards at the time, but if I have any credibilty here, trust me when I say I ripped into those assholes too.

And even if their point of view had validity (and I don’t think that the four examples I gave have any), now’s not the time for those comments you insensitive fuckers. So, please. since your heads are so far up your asses anyway please, clench your sphincter and strangle yourselves.

Thank you and goodnight.

Fenris

2

I am so with you on this.

Thankfully I haven’t heard much of it but what I have has made me want to retch. On them.

3

People like this, Fenris, make me ashamed to be a liberal and a democrat (Not Democrat, but democrat, in that I am 100 percent for democracy, not the Democratic party, all the time).

YES, I have said on these boards that the US has sponsored terrorism in the past-I only said that in response to people who say would should nuke the Mid East indiscriminatly. I was pointing out the hypocrisy.

But never, EVER is violence an answer. No one-NO ONE deserves what happens. NO ONE forced Bin Laden to do this. Not one single person.

Yes, Bush looks unemotional. So fucking WHAT? He’s a fucking newbie president, and he’s probably pissing his pants-I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy at this point.

All I can say is that PEOPLE were hurt. Who cares if it was the right, or the left, or my right ovary. What matters is that people were killed. People.

4

I listen to NPR in my car and this morning my local station had a call-in show. I heard 3 idiots in a row spout this victim mentality. It made me want to puke. (to set the record straight, I think that what israel is doing to the palestinians is sickeningly similar to what our own government did to the native americans in the 19th Century and that was state-sponsored genocide.) Saying ‘It’s our own fault’ is like an alcoholic Redneck’s wife saying ‘He only hits me when I deserve it’.

I didn’t vote for any Republicans in the last election unless it was a local office where there were only republicans running for the position, but I’m 100% behind our Country, our government and our president right now.

I think Bush seemed unemotional in his address last night because he was emotionally numb, like I was all day yesterday. I also thought it was his most eloquent address to date. He didn’t mis-pronounce a single word or use it as an opportunity to push any of his pet projects.

5

I agree with you Fenris.

However I’ve noticed the problem on both sides of the equation. Today in about a thirty minute period, I saw a “Nuke Palestine” sign, and had a friend (who I used to respect) say it was “about time, that’s what we get for throwing our weight around” when we were discussing the tragedy. And the “Republicans” that blame Clinton for “allowing our Humint resources to weaken” also bother me. (If our resources were so good before, why was Bush sr. taken by suprise by the invasion of Kuwait?) I am ashamed by all of these reactions. Now is not the time.

We need to stop acting like children. We need to see to our problems TOGETHER. We need to stop thinking like brats.

Nuff’ said.

6

There is nothing that this or any other country could possibly have done to justify this attack on innocent civilians. The only justification I could think of would be the Holocaust. But even then, killing thousands of innocent German civilians would still be beyond reprehensible.

7

This seems to be the appropriate place to rant about the guy I was working with…

Ok, I found out about the WTC at work because I had class at 8:00am CDT, and left home just before the first plane hit. So I get to work at 10 and log in to the SDMB because CNN, MSN, etc were all down.

The guy I end up working with starts spouting this anti-semitic shit about how the US supports the Jews and it’s clearly because of this fact that we have become a target. Bullshit, asshole. Israeli/US relations may certainly be a factor, but it’s not the only one. And you could perhaps say your hogshit in a fucking non-descriminatory manner, and maybe I’d be inclined to debate with you, not ignore you and seethe.

My boyfriend of just over 17 months is Jewish, ya fuckwit.

Asswipe.

8

WE favor Jews but I don’t know why we shoould. I don’t think its fair. They aren’t very pure hearted and do their share of dirt, included racism on blacks and people who are not jews. They have their own secret codes. I hate terrorism of any kind.

I just don’t know why we favor them. Does anybody know?

9

Please folks. This is an obvious cry for attention. (“They have their own secret codes.”??! I never got my secret decoder ring and I was Bar-Mitzvahed and everything!)

Can we just ignore him and continue the thread? Please?

Fenris

10

[sub]Anything you say, Fenris**

Indeed he is, Tattva. You should have taken the opportunity to hit him across the nose with a rolled up newspaper (repeatedly) while explaining it to him.

I always love the looks on their faces when you zing them with stuff like “MY boyfriend is (insert whatever group is being maligned)”

11

<sigh> Sorry about the coding mess. I’m just not myself at all today

12

To understand is not to pardon. To pretend that we couldn’t possibly understand this attack is to lie to ourselves. In this sense, the attack will eventually be “understandable”.

The United States is indeed the largest superpower in the world; its military actions and economic policies abroad have made it many, many enemies, many justifiably, many not. The bombing and starvation of Iraq; support of vicious military dictatorships the world over as long as they weren’t communist; and, yes, support for Israeli policies that have brutalized and subjugated innocent civilians in Palestine.

You must realize that these things are grosso modo not seen by their civilian victims as the consequences of their leaders’ acts, anymore than you see this catastrophe as the consequence of your leaders’ acts. They are seen as the killing of civilians, unprovoked by those civilians, by a foreign power. Do you not see that the same kind of anger that you harbour today exists in many countries against the US?

Nevertheless, US common sense ever since the Reagan administration seemed unable to grasp the idea that dragons’ teeth were being sowed and that the US mainland is not invulnerable to enemy assault.

I say again: that this action is appalling and inhuman beyond anything in memory does not mean that it cannot be understood in its context. Obviously, it’s grossly false to say that the government of the US is “to be blamed” or “responsible” or “at fault” for the cataclysm. The people who hijacked the planes were. But their actions were not decided upon in a vacuum.

13

I know that much of Israeli armed response in Palestine is directed at terrorists. This does not exclude the fact that a good deal of it has come down upon harmless civilians.

14

There seem to be any number of threads this could go into, but I’m putting it here. If someone thinks it should go elsewhere, feel free to move it (assuming you know how to do this sort of thing.)

(This is directed to one single individual person who I know very well, and not to anyone here, unless you happen to be her):

Listen, you unbelieveable twit. All day yesterday and all day today, I have been concerned about you. Not about “your people”, about YOU. Because I know people can be reactionary assholes, and you share an ethnic background with someone we’re pretty sure just killed several thousand people. I have bitten my fingernails worrying that someone would strike out at you or at your children in anger or vengeance.

So could you PLEASE FUCKING SHUT UP about how you’re pretty sure he’s not a terrorist, how you think the US had this coming, how you feel our past actions have earned us this horror, how you hope we never catch whoever it was because we deserve it? And could you PLEASE FUCKING STOP SAYING THIS SHIT in front of MY child?

15

Matt The anger I’m feeling today doesn’t extend to “nuking the ragheads”. However much provocation they (generic “they”) may have had, nothing justifies an act of terrorism that (per the last report I heard) may have killed up to 30,000 civilians. If I could wave my magic wand and decide what happens next, I’d determine who was responsible (not just the people who pulled the trigger, their leaders) and attempt to capture them with the minimum loss of civilian life possible. Once capturedm they can be given a fair trial and, if found guilty, put them to death (I suspect we disagree on the Death Penalty). I do not support simply bombing civilian populations. But whoever did this bombing, did. There is a huge gulf of difference between what I’m feeling and what those shitheads dancing in the streets, celebrating the death of innocents felt.

<digression>
Anyway, I’m not objecting to people wanting to engage in rational dialogue as yours was…

:: pauses and thinks for a bit ::

Ok. I guess I am objecting to reasonable discussion at the moment (although that’s not what I was ranting about). I want time to mourn. Time to at least let the bodies be buried. Hell, time to let the bodies be found, before we start to discuss who did what to who and how/if this could have been prevented or minimized. I realize that that may not be entirely rational, and I certainly can’t enforce it or expect people to conform to my feelings, but it’s how I feel.
</end digression>

In any event, the sort of comments you made in your post aren’t what I’m talking about. Yours is dialogue. What I’ve been hearing is…um…what’s the opposite of jingoism? Drive by, bumper-sticker, anti-Americanism.

Aargh…I’m rambling all the hell over the place. I apologize for any incoherence. I’ve been up for 20-some hours. I’m goin’ to bed.

Fenris

16

Aargh. That whole, long, semi-coherent post and I miss the basic point: The cretins I’m ranting about are trying to justify what the terrorists did. They aren’t trying to put things in context, they’re justifying it.

I personally won’t accept any qualifications on the following statment:

What the terrorists did yesterday was unmitigated evil.

To me, quaifying it somehow mitigates it. And what I’m hearing from these people is:

What the terrorists did yesterday was wrong, but if America hadn’t supported Israel, this never would have happened.

or worse

What the terrorists did yesterday was wrong, but understandable.

Fenris, going to bed for real, this time.

17

matt, I couldn’t agree more with the above. A popular perception must exist that US policies cause intense hardship in the Middle East. Saddam H. is not broadcasting a message to the Iraqi people that the responsibility for their misery lay on his head.

And too, there is an element of xenophobia, possibly a basic human thinking modality, in the search for an outside agent to blame for one’s woes. Even if one’s leaders are not angels, they are brethren, and as such, are less likely to be blamed for internal crises.

It is this perception of US wrongdoing that fuels a minority fringe element to carry out such an unbelievable attack.

Again, I find myself in agreement with you.

And in preview

**

Such a luxury of time would be nice, but we likely won’t have it. As soon as the government feels it has reasonably identified the perpetrators (which, judging by the Ashcroft news conference today, may be quite soon), a response will be forthcoming.

18

Fenris: I agree that the victims of the catastrophe need to mourn. However, I must admit that I am looking at this from a relatively privileged perspective: the most the blasts have caused me are a few minutes of hysterics and about forty hours of a queasy stomach. There’s not much I can do (I can’t even give blood). So I’ve been allowing myself the luxury of considered reflection.

And mark me, such reflection is vital. George Bush is using the rhetoric of the lord’s swift and terrible vengeance. That is not a tone of voice that is conducive to determining what would be the best way to go about this; and error due to hasty, ill-considered, bloodlustful action in this case will lead to massive, massive devastation and shedding of many times the innocent blood that has already been shed. Festina lente.

19

I challenge you to explain, in a logical and detailed fashion, how it would be possible for the United States to run its affairs in any fashion that would NOT piss someone off.

I would submit that it cannot be done. Furthermore, I would submit that it is completely impossible for the United States to not make enemies abroad, no matter what they do or how hard they try, and that they will get enemies simply by virtue of their size, wealth, and visibility.

20

Excuse me, asshole. I am Jewish. I am PROUD to be Jewish. Even more importantly, I am PROUD to be an AMERICAN. Aside from my desire to see Israel co-exist peacefully with its Arab neighbors, I have no loyalty to any other country but the US. I was born here, my parents were born here, and my grandparents were born here. At least two of my great-grandparents were born here, too.

As for your claims of being less than pure-hearted, I’d LOVE to see you back that up with some REAL facts, not some half-baked bullshit taken from a racist website. It’s true that, to some degree, Jews have done much the same to minorities as other whites. However, the historical record shows clearly that America has been biased against Jews. In the south, for example, Jews were considered blacks with white skin and treated accordingly. Read any good book on American history for more details.

As for the secret codes, the book must be out of print. I don’t recall ever getting a copy.

I’m not trying to change your mind. That’ll never happen. I just felt the need to stand up and defend my people.
Robin