It’s been a long, long time since I’ve had myself a good old fashioned pitting. I think the last one was Collinsberry.
But then I saw Bob55’s comment
.
Bob55, fuck you.
Really. Fuck you.
-evensven, University of California Santa Cruz 2003 BA with Honors
Super 8 Desk clerk, minimum wageWhat’s this all about?
-Lib, 1st semester college dropout
Senior Vice-President, 28% tax bracket
Maybe he should have said staying in useful schools then.
Honestly, what do philosophy majors expect to do when they graduate?
even, I noticed that comment too, but was too lazy to call him on it. Not sure it rises to the level of a “Fuck You,” but that’s your call to make, not mine.
Just to reiterate what you’ve said, many people with a good education work at dead end jobs. I know plenty of them. It all depends on the area where you live, what jobs are available, and so forth.
At one of my old dead end jobs, I was very active on my off time with my artsy fartsy activities (sales, somewhat prestigious art shows and galleries). I was not raking in the big bucks, but I was respected by my peers and showing promise. This was due at least in part to my hard work and my good education at art school.
However, some of my coworkers (in their first semesters of junior college) made a snotty remark one day about how I was working at that dead end job because I didn’t study at school. I was shocked. I told them to take it back—that they couldn’t possibly mean it. (They knew about my gallery shows and aspirations.) But no. They giggled and repeated the statement. I was very hurt and angry. I didn’t talk to them (other than for mandatory job-related communication) for a few days. I was that pissed. (I never give people the “silent treatment” so this was rare for me.)
So you know, when I think about that kind of attitude, and how much it pissed me off, perhaps sven is right in pitting Bob.
I hate to do this, but link?
Big fucking deal. Do what my sister did. Earn a BA in English Lit. Then go to Scotland to earn your Master’s in publishing, come back to the US and take a job on the Barnes & Noble sales floor.
Weak.
I don’t know, duffer. What we’re getting from Bob (until he clarifies his intent, at least) is that “staying in school” would prevent people from resorting to working at WalMart, as if it’s all their own damned fault for not going to school. That’s an annoying and incorrect assumption.
I certainly don’t have a problem with what even had to say, nor what he’s feeling. What I take issue with is this idea the younger crowd has of “Hey, I have a degree, gimme a good job!”
I think some people are under the mistaken impression that “schooling” and “education” are synonyms. Just because a body is at a desk and a teacher is making mouth noises does not mean any education is going on. And likewise, a person may choose to read and learn without any desk or teacher. I started my current career by teaching myself to program computers, writing a finished and polished database application, and taking it personally to prospective employers, inviting them to have a look at it. The direct demonstration of my abilities, not to mention the initiative and determination that I showed, got me in the door and led me to making more money than many of my childhood friends who went on to college.
Ah. I understand. Yes, that’s true. A degree is not a guarantee of everything. And perhaps that’s what Bob thinks, though, since he assumes that people in dead end jobs are there because they didn’t go to school?
I know exactly what you’re saying, and that’s kind of a subject for a different rant. However, I feel exactly as you do about initiative and determination. Recently (for whatever reason) several topics have come up that have given me the opportunity to explain how an art education isn’t really proof that a person is a good artist. (Because, like you said, it all depends on the student, the effort they put into their education, and the quality of education they receive.)
With all that said, some areas of the country are pretty shitty and financially depressed, and sometimes you have to keep afloat by taking a dead end job. One of my coworkers at another dead end job had a degree in Photography and was a successful professional photographer in another city. However, when she moved to Hooterville (unnamed midwestern town), there were no photography jobs. So she took a dead-end, grueling job while studying to be a nurse. She was pragmatic about it. (And as a matter of fact, I’m being pragmatic about it too—I’m working other options and branching out as well.)
But you know, sometimes being pragmatic takes time, so you have to take a dead end job for a year, or two, or three. And that doesn’t mean that you didn’t go to school.
Getting off on a tangent for a moment, there are many people who take dead-end jobs for a variety of reasons. Many people who want to get into show business work dead-end jobs while they look for acting or singing gigs. Some make it, some don’t, but many are perfectly capable singers or actors who did go to school and feel like they’ve got to at least try. Also, most of my arty friends don’t work in art-related jobs. Some of them are housewives, or work at mediocre, underpaying jobs, but their artwork is fabulous and they are “successful” at being artists. They regularly sell their work, they have their own fans and collectors, they are reviewed with favor in local newspapers and art magazines, and they are doing what makes them happy.
They got where they did in their art because they worked hard and are good at what they do. It just so happens that it doesn’t pay enough to support them, so they get a dead end job to make ends meet.
A-bloody-men. I hold the prestigious Cook County GED and dozens of state and federal licences and certifications and a better job than two thirds of my high school colleagues, and moving up the ladder to the executive level by the first of next year. I’m a published poet and writer, and, never forget to mention that I’m a member of the SDMB…
You said it LiberalThere is a mother of a void between schooling and education.
As someone who will be graduating with a BA very soon, you would think I would be worried about the possibility of having to work a crappy job. But I’m not. I’d rather prepare for the contingency than whine about it later.
I know there is no guarantee that I will get the job I want when I am done with school. However, I’m not going to let that discourage me. Also, too many people have the mistaken belief that you go to college ONLY to get a good job later on. Why limit yourself? One of the reasons I picked English as my major is not because I expected to make big bucks working in a relevant field, but because I was interested in the classes. I have gotten a lot of personal fulfillment out of college, and for me the drive to get my degree was motivated more on being able to stick with it and not give up.
So while the degree may help me with certain jobs, that was not the original intention. The intention was to learn something I liked, even if it might not wind up being as practical as some other majors. 
I wouldn’t take anything from a Bob who couldn’t be one of the top 54 of them. I bet he even pads that. He’s probably like Bob63 or something.
Playing devil’s advocate for a second, here…
Is it possible he meant high school instead of college? I could see how not having a high school degree would make it harder to find a good job than not having a college degree. Is there something I missed that makes his statement apply to college educations only?
My SO went to law school.
So did I.
We had a joke in the philosophy department.
You know how to get a philosophy major off your front porch? Pay for your pizza.
Wah! I have 2 degrees (History and Political Science), yet I work in a totally unrelated field. So what? Unless it’s a specialized field (like pre-law or pre-med, and even then the real work is done post-graduate ), college degrees are fairly worthless. Hard work, initiative and determination is generally what separates the 7-11 clerks from those who are more monetarily successful. College itself, however, is a blast. That’s why it took me 7 years to get out. If I could have figured out how to do it, I would have gladly stayed longer 
“What is truth?” was supposed to be a rhetorical question.
Feh. College educations are commonplace anymore. They’re the norm. Yet, someone has to do the shitty jobs. Schooling has little to do with it. If everyone who was qualified for a high-paying job actually had a high-paying job, we’d have no one to buy cheap socks from at Walmart! Education for education’s sake has been lost on these last couple generations. They all think they’re entitled to a good job if they do 16 years of school. Newsflash: It ain’t necessarily so. Go to school and learn because you enjoy learning; because you will be a better person for it. If you end up with a high-paying job in the process, you’re lucky.