Sua - I wondered if someone would nitpick on that one. My thrust however is that although med have indeed been raped by women, I doubt you’ll find many men who actually worry about such an attack (from a woman) late at night whilst walking home. I wouldn’t have thought it even registers on the radar of 99.999% of women. But I bet most women have been scared of the converse at some point in time or other.
Doors - whilst I see what you’re saying (actions speak a whole lot more clearly and directly than words). My point however is that using “cunt” to describe a woman encourages the user and listeners to think in those terms. It keeps present such underlying implicit violence.
This is the thing about the words we choose to use - they don’t just affect the situation we find ourselves in at the time. They also affect how we and others think of situations and how we perceive future situations. Using cunt to belittle a woman keeps certain unpleasant attitudes on the agenda. It validates them.
What, pray tell, is the correct term for a carful of “ni**ers”? Is it “black people”, or just plain “people”? If it’s just “people”, is that descriptive enough?
That’s why I really hate semantics. You can say the right thing and still be wrong.
Well, I assumed it was, given your statement about racial epithets.
Maybe I missed something.
Race is generally irrelevant to me, but how do you describe African Americans without either grouping them or somehow separating them from white people?
Yep, they have meaning.
Yep, I also wish people would use more consideration in choosing the particular words they use.
But.
Words do not have static meanings. No word is so heinous that it should never be used. When we are talking about expletives, in particular, the offensiveness of a sememe varies widely withing social and cultural contexts. You may consider “cunt” the most hideous of all insults with a clear connotation of female servitude and threats of rape. I may consider it closer to “whore”. Who gets to decide which connotation is “right”?
My own experience differs. I have heard it used (with emphasis, even) to quite specifically refer to the sexual organ.
Well yes, Spiritus - there is no harm in the word itself. Indeed I actually do use it occasionally when talking about the female genitalia. I see it as trying to reclaim the word
A carful of people drive up, jump out, and enter a movie theater. You are describing this event to a friend. Who cares what race the people are?
A carful of people drive up, jump out, and start beating a bystander senseless. You are describing this even to a police officer. The cop has to go find the bad guys. There, race is relevant.
If race is relevant, than African Americans are “African Americans” or “blacks”.
Airman Doors, fuck you and the pissant little mule you rode in on. Your posts are inane, your thinking is infantile at best, and while it’s obvious that you take pride in your rank and profession, it ain’t all that much to be proud of. Just like a typical knee-jerk poseur neo-conservative.
“Ohhh, lookit me, I’m an Aaaaaaaaaiiiiiiirrrrrrrman!! I wear Blue! I fight commies and get pissed on by every Staff Sergeant that comes around! Look at me, I’m special!!”
Idiot.
[sub](what? they’re just words, right? no reason you should get angry . . . )[/sub]
Question for you. If you had to choose, would you rather have the shit kicked out of you or be raped anally(since you are male)? Explain your decision.
Regarding the OP.
I’m agree with you 100% Oldscratch! I don’t find the word “cunt” shocking, but moreso a telling sign of the person saying it. The few people I know IRL and here on the SDMB who have used the word, (one banned poster in particular comes to mind) have all been the classless, trailer trash, loser types. Makes me wonder how many, or what type of women they attract, if any.
If that’s the case, andros, then “minority” can be used to apply to every cognizable race, religion, nationality, or other grouping on the planet. “People with two working eyes” are a minority, in this sense, because they are clearly part of a larger group - humanity as a whole - and they’re different than the group of “humanity as a whole,” because some humans don’t have two working eyes. But that flies in the face of the word “minority.”
Again, not trying to be a stinker; I know the word was used originally to convey “treated like” a minority. But if the word is to have any literal meaning, as it clearly should, then women – at least in the United States; I didn’t get world-wide figures – are NOT a minority.
What’s the difference? I ended up in the hospital anyway. With multiple injuries.
Being anally raped would have devastated me emotionally, but I was fucked up anyway for a long time, so again, what’s the difference?
I’ll say it again: the perception that violence may occur pales in comparison to the actual violence. I agree with kabbes that some words are associated with violent acts, but again, they’re only words. Words never killed anyone.
There’s no reason to go on a big holy crusade to eradicate the world of words you don’t like. Educate, if you like. But if people don’t choose to listen, accept it and move on.
I don’t use words like “cunt” on a regular basis. If someone else does, what would you do? Put a muzzle on them? Just shrug your shoulders and get on with the things you can change, instead of worrying about hte things you can’t.
What’s the difference? Holy shit, someone please tell me that I really don’t need to explain the difference between physically pain compared to the completely dehumanizing, emotionally degrading, violation that comes with rape, not to mention the physical pain.
This has got to qualify for the most asinine thing posted on the board this week. If it is something that needs to be explained to you, I’m afraid you will never quite “get it”.
Possibly, but don’t forget the remainder of the definition: “regarded as different from the larger group of which it is part.”
People with two eyes are not regarded as different from the general run of humanity. IMO, a fairly substantive argument could be made that women are regarded as different by the larger groups of which it is a part, even by many women.
What’s the difference? Holy shit, someone please tell me that I really don’t need to explain the difference between physically pain compared to the completely dehumanizing, emotionally degrading, violation that comes with rape, not to mention the physical pain.
This has got to qualify for the most asinine thing posted on the board this week. If it is something that needs to be explained to you, I’m afraid you will never quite “get it”.
No; the point some of us are trying to get across is that we would hold a lesser opinion of someone who uses such terms. After all, use of such words indicates a poor intellect and a lack of imagination- if you’re going to insult someone, it behooves you to use phrases and words associated with exactly why such a person should be insulted, rather than merely lumping them in their ‘general group’ with such an invective. That is, calling someone a ‘cunt’ or a ‘nigger’ is offensive partially because such a slander seems to extend to the group as a whole (after all, Robert Byrd not withstanding, calling non-blacks ‘nigger’ is not something that happens; likewise, I doubt you’d find anyone who ever called a man a ‘cunt’), but also a sign of a deficient intellect and an inability to articulate.
If someone I knew used the phrase ‘cunt’ on a regular basis, I would have a lesser opinion of them. If I actually wanted to continue the friendship, I would try to politely explain that their use of the word offends me and reflects poorly upon them. And if they continued to use it, I’d probably walk away from them.
Feel free to lambast me as PC; you’ll get plenty of guffaws from those who know me.
fag is generally acceptable when used by homosexuals to refer to themselves. While some straight people might be offended, the majority of gay people on this board would be thrilled if I started referinng to myself as gay, less competition for them yep, I’m full of myself.
Again, it comes back to context. If someone is using the word cunt to refer to lines in the Vagina Monolouges, I don’t expect them to not use it.
The context was missing and I’ve found more interesting things to put up. So it’s gone now.
The point that you are so clearly missing here Airman, is that no one is suggesting that there be a ban on the word “cunt”, “fag”, or “nigger”, or that people not be allowed to say them. What we are saying is, if someone chooses to use them, don’t be surprised if most of us form the opinion that they are nothing more than classless slobs.
I have to take issue with this. Words are probably the most powerful weapon many people have. If I am a good enough speaker, the words I use can inspire peace or cause fear. If I am a strong enough writer, the words I choose my words carefully to paint an emotional picture. I choose the words to affect you, I want you to feel something, whether it be anger, love, frustration, happiness, lonliness, etc. Many speakers and writers do this, and they do it well.
Think of some of the turning points in the 20th century. Think of some of the greatest speeches ever given. Remember the “I Have A Dream Speech”? Were those “just words”?
(Note: I’m about to mention Hitler, not to win the debate, but to draw an illustration. Please, be aware, I’m not comparing anybody in this thread to Hitler)
Do you think Hitler was elected to office, and became the Dictator he was because of his good looks? Was it just luck? No, he used words to motivate the entire country to believe him, follow him.
What I’m trying to say is this; words are powerful. Words are deadly. Will I die if someone calls me a cunt? No, but my feelings will be hurt. I will feel degraded, and inferior. Would it kill my BF if someone called him a nigger? No. But it did kill thousands, millions, of black people because they weren’t considered to be real people anyway. Maybe the attitude beget the words, however, the words allowed the horrible attitude to be passed down from generation to generation.
Of course kabbes said it better than I could. So when you are finished reading my ramblings, please re-read kabbes’s post.
