Fuck you, Jean.

Upham, perhaps you have never heard of Vicente Fox? And you live in a democratic republic. While that may not be the kind of democracy that you would prefer, it is a democracy.

Maybe Eastern Canadians live in a democracy, but it sure seems like us Westerners don’t. You see, we have a thing called “Representation by Population” in Canada, and this means that you get a representative in the House of Parliament for x number of people. What this means is that our federal elections are over once the votes from Quebec and Ontario are counted; the rest of the votes from the Maritimes, Western Canada, and the Northern Territories are so small in number that they can not make a difference at this point. This would not be such a problem if there wasn’t such a schism between Eastern and Western political leanings, but since there is, this means that Western Canadians do not have a say in electing our Federal leader, and I do not consider that very democratic.

News item: Apparently, JC was the one who recommended the use of the War Measures Act and the military occupation of Montreal to Pierre Trudeau during the October Crisis.

Well, at least now we know that Vancouver and Quebec City had precedent.

That was thirty fucking years ago, matt, time to move on. Looks like puttin’ up a fence helped prevent more elected officials (ooohh, but they weren’t really elected, were they) from being kidnapped by professional shit-disturbers, now doesn’t it?

And I swear, if I have to hear one more whining redneck bitch about “Western Under-reprentation” I’m gonna vomit. Go clean your guns and help Stupidwell Day keep his feet out of his idiot mouth for longer than one week at a stretch.

Just because you’re party doesn’t win, doesn’t mean it ain’t democratic. Get it through your head!

z

You mean like Jaggi Singh being kidnapped by undercover cops before he got anywhere near the fence?

And, if there hadn’t been anti-globalization riots in Prague or Seattle, the government wouldn’t feel the need to call out the RCMP and troops.

I appreciate the fact that you’re condemning the violence, but the fact is, that’s what people are going to remember, and that’s what the government is going to remember, and if whoever is organizing the protests can’t control or exclude the violent faction, no matter how good your message, it’s not going to be effective.

Blah blah blah fucking blah.

All of you who are disagreeing with me, fuck you.

All of you who are agreeing with me, cool, do what you gotta do (actually, same basically goes for those disagreeing with me, but give me my moment here)
I started this thread because i consider or “Right Honorable” Jackass of a PM to be worthy of the iron maden. If you wanna talk about Democracy (and Canada, mi amigos, aint no democracy) start a new thread.

If you want to talk about Police brutality and the insanity of our ways in dealing with protesters, (and let me state that i consider our systems of handeling protesters, peaceful or otherwise, to be in need of serious reform) start a new thread.

If, on the other hand, you would like to bitch about OR defend Jean, come on in, pull up a chair, grab a cigar and enjoy your self. Nitty gritty be damned, i’m here to bitch.

Thank you.

In other words, if we don’t know or can’t control the tactics of everyone within the city limits, there’s no point in protesting. Brilliant.

No, I didn’t say that. But, if there’s a protest, and 1000 people are protesting peacefully, and one person is throwing bombs, people are going to pay attention to the person who’s throwing bombs, and, in spite of the benefits or costs of free trade, what people remember about Seattle or Prague is the rioting. But, Upham’s right…this is a hijack, and Upham, I’m sorry.

Well, seeing as i partook in the hijack i’m not gonna bitch too, too much about it.

But i would really like to take this thread back to my origonal irate Jean Bashing (or, if you wish - and you’re still recovering from the brain surgery - Jean Loving)

Thanks for being cool with that.
I HOPE FIRE ANTS BURROW THROUGH YOUR SKULL, JEAN

This is obviously indicative of the general POV of violent protesters and their supporters. The social responsibility is overwhelming.

Pardon me for sounding too American, but if Canada ain’t to your liking, there, hotrod, then shove off. I’m sure Jean and the rest of us’ll be real disappointed.

Not being a Liberal, I think JC’s alright on the whole, especially when all you’ve got to choose from is politicians.
z

As a politician, Zoony, let me be the first to say well, thank YOU very much. I haven’t made any cruel jokes about protesters being pepper sprayed, to my knowledge.

zooney you goon, did you not read any of that post at all other then the “disagree? fuck you” part?

Beyond that, did you not read anything that was said after it?

Are you really this fucking useless?

AM I a violent protester? AM i supporting violent protest? for the Peace of the Tao NO! In case you didn’t figure that out when i stated it before.

I will (for the time being) pardon you for sounding “too American” if you wish, but if Canada is not to my liking, then i aim to change it you chowderhead.

Is the entire concept of what a Democracy should be lost on you?

This is my country, this is the country of my relitives (loyalist refuges, incidently, from the American Revolution, we put up a fight before we left last time and we’ll sure as hell do it again if we have to), and this is the country of many of my friends. These people, mi amigo, are being screwed hard core, and i’ll be god damned if i’m not going to speak out against it.

Jesus H. fucking Christ in a chicken basket, man (to borrow a line from the Onion), THINK before you speak. And then post it some where else as - if you’ll care to note - i’ve alredy asked that this thread not be hijacked and further.

Matt i’m not exactly sure what you mean by that, but i definatly don’t want you to think i’ve infered that you have made any cruel jokes about pepper spray and what nought.

Oh, Heaven forfend there should be cruel jokes! As we all know, the last thing we want is politicians who take themselves too seriously.

Y’know something matt? I’ve always thought the only people who should be disqualified from running for public office should be those who actually want the job.

I guess as an NDP member, being elected is not a huge concern for you.
z

Are you that drunk when you post, or are you just illiterate? That statement sure sounds like a defence for violent protest to me, babaluga.

And as for “THINK” before you speak, have a gander at your OP, sonny jim; people who blame others for their own violent thoughts (or masturbatory fantasies, or however it is you view the PM) are usually harboring some severe form of psycho-social maladjustment, kiddo.

My advice would be to not skip your meds.
z

You fool.

First off, my quote you used there is an advocation of peace on BOTH sides of the lines (though, frankly, i don’t believe there should be any “lines” as such at all, there oughtn’t be a need)

Secondly, exactly what part of “post it some where else” did you not comprehend?

**

Well, it’s nice to know that Jean takes himself so lightly that he can feel free to disgrace himself by laughing at an abuse of constitutional rights and a departmental cover-up.

To put it mildly! I keep saying, “I’m so power-hungry, I’m running for the NDP, in Quebec no less! Wow, that’s a route straight to the top!”

Not at all. I was referring to where Zoony said that we can’t expect any better of him because he’s a politician.

Disgrace is a very subjective conception my left-of-centre friend.

As for Constitutional rights, I suggest you pick up the Charter at some point and examine s.1

1. Rights and Freedoms in Canada - The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

A fence is a reasonable limit in light of the violence that has accompanied previous world trade talks held in North America and Europe. Read into it all the symbolisms you will, it’s still just a fence. The government insists you put a fence around your pool. Not because they demand a Draconian level of influence on your leisure acitivities, but because they’d like to limit the number of accidental drownings when you ain’t watching your pool. This is a limiting regulation on your freedom which serves the public interest.

I’m not going to broach the issue of politically back-handed ‘departmental cover-ups’ because they’re not at issue here, and it sure as hell ain’t the Liberals who’ve got any kind of monopoly on that barrel o’monkeys. If you doubt it, come check out the bridge to nowhere built by our then-Premier Howard Pawley (NDP) for the benefit of three farms owned by his pals. I’m not defending it, I’m just saying breaking it down by party - well, six of one, half-dozen of the other.

I sincerely believe that the Surete aquitted themselves in fair fashion, given the circumstances. As for Mr. Singh, I’m sorry, but when people show up for ‘peaceful’ protest with gas masks, vinegar-soaked bandanas and explosives, it’s gonna be real hard to convince me that the police are in some way instigating this.

And if you’re gonna tell me a fence is responsible for it, well, you can hear me laughing from here.
z

Zoony, please refrain from the continued hijack. Start a new thread if you want to.

Lynn, Administrator