Don’t let a few facts get in your way, then.
I just posted this in GD. Seems that they’ve been able to identify some of those terrorists on the planes. most are Egypt/Saudi nationals .
This is why I keep trying to get folks to slow down. We don’t know shit for certain yet. OUr best suspicions may be correct, however, until we are certain, we need to keep our heads.
wring:
This will be a slight, err, hijack, but… I followed your link and found the following:
I know nobody seems in the mood for humor right now, but doesn’t anyone else find it at least droll that our airlines’ preternatural ability to lose luggage has finally paid off?
I don’t think it is white, liberal guilt, I just want someone to explain why the death of innocent Americans is a tragedy while the death of innocent Arabs is justice. There is something disgustingly vile in that train of thought. Call it racism or xenophobia or whatever, it is still wrong.
[sub]Bick I thought the same thing but you’re right, this is no time for levity[/sub]
It is the terrorists I loathe, not the people of the countries from which they hail. All Muslims should not be be punished for the horrors of the few. Even the people celebrating in the streets of Palestine should not be targets because they have committed no crime against us. You can’t go around killing people simply because they don’t like you. People that have committed treason against your country and murdered innocent civilians are another matter altogether. But to kill children? Dear Lord, NO!
What we SHOULD do is retaliate against the people responsible in a swift and convincing manner. That much we can agree on. And, of course, try to prevent this from happening in the future.
As far as assassinations, I heard on NPR this morning that Gerald Ford signed an executive order forbidding assassinations. (Perhaps in response to Allende?) Anyway, the commentator said he was pretty sure that the only thing necessary to reverse the policy was for President Bush to pass another executive order rescinding the first.
**
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think it is white, liberal guilt, I just want someone to explain why the death of innocent Americans is a tragedy while the death of innocent Arabs is justice. There is something disgustingly vile in that train of thought. Call it racism or xenophobia or whatever, it is still wrong. **
[/QUOTE]
Fine, Dr. Lao, you go your way and I’ll go mine. I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye. Frankly, I don’t give a flyin’ shit. When Kabul, Khartoum, Baghdad, and other cities start to burn, I won’t shed one fucking tear. My family will live, my friends will live, my neighbors will live and that’s all that counts.
Oh yeah, maybe in the course of the actions our country will carry out in the future, it might even guarantee that you may live to be a ripe old age instead of being blown 85 stories out of an exploding building with a nice hard sidewalk to break your death-dive.
I might even pop a beer open for that, but don’t hold your fuckin’ breath.
What’s wrong with you? You’re making yourself sound like a sick fuck. How can you come up with these hateful feelings after seeing a few seconds of video footage? Don’t wish death upon people, and don’t ever fucking wish death upon a child. You’re being as hateful as they are.
First off, I’m short on sleep. I kept seeing the video of the 737 into the second tower. I kept seeing the images of the trapped leaping to their deaths. I kept seeing a lot of things. I’m short on sleep.
It’s important to win. There’s a way to win that loses. We must not win that way.
What was attacked was not just our people, our property. What was attacked was our way of doing things. Can we scorch the earth until it yields up the guilty? Of course. Can we bomb, torture, starve, kill any that will bring us closer to the guilty? Of course.
But we must not.
This must be a victory of our way over their way. If we win by doing what they’d do only better, we will have lost. We must avoid harm to non-combatants, because they would not. We must take them, but we must not become like them. We must not prove them right in what they think of us.
You may think that we could not make them right in what they think of us, but there are weapons in the arsenal that could do just that.
We are all of us in pain, now. That pain will go on for a long time, make no mistake. We must bring those responsible for this heinous act before the world at whatever expense. Go ahead. Raise my taxes. I’ve already called the recruiter (sadly, I’m too old - even though I’m a several-thousand-hour helicopter pilot - Change the rules, punk!). As much as I would enjoy torturing them to a slow death, yet we must not. For that is their way. It must not become ours.
This event can, some day, advance the cause of civilization all over the world. Or it can assure that we do not deserve to survive. The choice is ours, and I don’t think the easy one is right.
Can you even imagine that the people who live in those cities have friends, families, and loved ones who wish no ill will toward anyone and only want to live their lives in peace? Why do you want to destroy that? Because of what some people who look like them did?
:rolleyes: I personally think that our country has little to fear from the old women and young children in the mideast. Killing them will not insure anyones freedom.
Oh, and I’d like to point out the irony of Bluepony considering a celebratory beer in honor of my death while we are talking about a tradegy which was celebrated, to the condemnation of all right thinking people, by Palestinian in the West Bank.
I think you’re both wrong. Bluepony is being too bloodthirsty. I understand and support his desire to punish the masterminds of this filthy act, but a wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians to no purpose except bloody revenge would be counter-productive. By all means, let’s find and destroy the beasts that sent the hijackers, but let’s use our heads, too.
{b]Dr. Lao[/b[, you, on theother hand, are being too weak. You would let murderers go unpunished for fear of bystanders getting caught in the crossfire. We should minimize casualties if we can, but we can’t let the guilty get away free. When we bombed Germany and Japan we killed civilians, but we did it to prevent a vastly darker future.
If we followed your advice, Dr. Lao, the murderers would rule and the civilized would live in fear.
There are lots of Bin Laden’s over seas and here at home. Hatred is everywhere. We need to get rid of all the people who hate and act on their hate, be they radicals, extremists, terrorists or racists.
I think you’re both wrong. Bluepony is being too bloodthirsty. I understand and support his desire to punish the masterminds of this filthy act, but a wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians to no purpose except bloody revenge would be counter-productive. By all means, let’s find and destroy the beasts that sent the hijackers, but let’s use our heads, too.
Dr. Lao, you, on the other hand, are being too weak. You would let murderers go unpunished for fear of bystanders getting caught in the crossfire. We should minimize casualties if we can, but we can’t let the guilty get away free. When we bombed Germany and Japan we killed civilians, but we did it to prevent a vastly darker future.
If we followed your advice, Dr. Lao, the murderers would rule and the civilized would live in fear.
There has to be a middle way betwen the tiger and the sheep.
I’m not necessarily saying that all civilian causilties should be avoided at all costs. I’m saying that we should not target civilians. I don’t think bombing Kabul until Afganistan gives up Bin Laden will be an effective or moral strategy. We did strategic bombing during WWII and guess what? It didn’t work. Targeting civilians will strengthen, not weaken, the resolve of the fighting man. Especially if the soldier is already willing to lay down his life to win.
Hmmm…now where in this am I celebrating your death Dr. Lao? Let me paraphrase if I’m going too fast.
The…USgovernment…might…take…steps…to…prevent…further…terrorism…towards… Americans…like…yourself…sparing…you…a…horrible…death…like…what …happened…in…World Trade Center…(get it? 85 stories?)… (Full Stop)
(Start another idea or point)
I…may…drink…celebratory…drink…on…your…continued… life…but…that…might…be…a…waste…of…a…perfectly…good…beer.
Bluepony, thanks for clarifying, but please don’t be a dick about it. I also found your original beer statement to be unclear.
<b>Gobear,</b> there is no easy way to go about getting justice
for these horrendous acts, because when we do strike back
at them, they are going to strike back at us very hard
too. I think this is what they have been waiting for.
These radicals don’t care if they are going to die or not.
But the civilians here in this country and overseas have the same fears and sadness we do.
We don’t want innocent people killed and maimed here, and we
shouldn’t want them killed and maimed over there.
So how would YOU go about justice w/o killing innocents?
Tom Leher moment:
Fenris