shep proudfoot and fellow travelers - if you can’t see well enough to read the many, many posted cites which show that, in fact, the law is not on your side, then perhaps you shouldn’t drive at all.
If you are so proud of your driving style, perhaps you should call your local DMV and explain your views. Perhaps they’ll give you some sort of citation.
That’s great, Shep. You’ll show 'em who’s boss, right?
You go!
I’ll bet you don’t have many friends. I’ll bet that you have never really ever done anything nice for a stranger. I’ll bet that you lead a generally miserable and unsatisfying life, even if it is buried beneath a thin veil of self-delusional content.
If you want to go through life with your petty, asshole, chip on your shoulder attitude, and your mystifying need to inflict your belligerence and misery on others, in addition to being a chronic violator of law, then I suppose there’s not much hope for you.
I hope you get cited someday for what you do, that you don’t cause any accidents, that you pay some kind of “asshole tax” before you leave this world, and that you drop the whole “I’m not gonna move over cuz I don’t wanna, and you can’t make me” bullshit.
I don’t speed because I’m stressed out or always late. I don’t swerve around in traffic and risk lives to save a minute or two. I don’t tailgate. I just go faster to save a bit of time getting from here to there. I will pass you in whatever lane I must take to pass you, so I don’t know what you hope to gain other than some form of pathetic pleasure derived from being a selfish and controlling prick.
As I said, some people have common courtesy, others don’t. I don’t hate you because you’re not worth the effort it takes to stir up that kind of negative energy in me. I feel sorry for you in a way, actually.
Carry on with your wittle thoughts and your wittle grudge in your wittle car as you fart your way through the fast lane… and while I’m using the time I saved speeding to bring myself some peace doing something I love, I’ll get some satisfaction knowing that you are still out there on the road cursing at tailgaters.
And if you let everyone who came up behind you with one item pass, you’d be in line all day and never get anywhere… Not very practical. A very good analogy -To bad it doesn’t support the point.
As for the matter of whose side the law is on, I’d point out that no matter what position you support on any issue, there’s always some law that could be interpreted to be on your side. Maybe a cop will think that a 200m train of cars is too long and pull the offender over, and maybe not.
Besides, if everyone who was going too slow for you really, really! important people! actually DID pull over to the side so you can pass, I’d put twenty dollars down that within the day we’d have a thread complaining that people’s slowing down to pull over was extremely discourteous, or that they were rude enough to pull back in to traffic right ahead of YOU of all people despite there being no signs of traffic even letting up.
FESS UP, I’M TIRED OF YOUR EXCUSES: All you want to do is go fast for the sake of going fast and be ahead of other cars because it gives you some meaningless sense of control! Just say it already!
And remember, if this discussion gets me all outraged and I kill someone, it’s YOUR fault!!!
However, I have a lot of contact with the local DMV. I asked them to fax me a copy of the four different versions of the state drivers permit test. Question number four on test C asks the following question:
"What is the minimum speed limit a rural two lane highway where the posted speed limit is 55 mph?
A. 40 mph
B. 45 mph
C. 55 mph
D. 25 mph"
The answer is D and is provided with a short explanation:
“The answer is B as provided by the 10 mph under rule which is in place in North Dakota”.
That is not a very good cite, but it is the best I could find. The only reason I even thought to call my buddy at the DMV is simply because I explicitly remember that question being on the test I took as a teenager only because it was the only question I got wrong.
I also called and spoke with a friend who is not only our local high school’s drivers ed teacher, but he also teaches a defensive driving class during the summer. He is the only person I know who has logged more professional miles than I. His answer to my question is the same 10 mph rule except on interstates where the lower limit is 40.
(A sidenote…I didn’t mention my driving experience until others did. I have logged over 12500 miles of in-town driving over the past seven years. Recently, I was given a promotion to the office. When I received the news of my promotion, my supervisor stated that the answer he liked the best from me was the fact that even though I have climbed utility poles which incur a hazard pay if they are more than 25 feet high, I considered driving the company vehicle to be the most dangerous part of my job. I logged one driving complaint in those seven years in a company where the average is one per year per driver. I take full responsibility for that complaint even though I have justification for it…I was taking evasive action and took my eye off a stoplight to avoid a collision. The result was that the light was turning from yellow to red when I looked back up at it. I entered the intersection after the light had turned red and almost broadsided someone else who was trying to jump the light. I wrote a letter of apology to this person without being forced to do it.)
I have searched and searched, but I have not been able to come up with any other cites for this law. I’m going to drop my friend at the DMV an email tomorrow asking for a cite for this. Unfortunately, this is not only an (apparent) error on the test, but it is something that was drilled into our heads in drivers ed class when I was younger. Apparently, either the law is obscure or the person who wrote the test did not read the lawbook.
However, I will state for the final time (and then let the argument die): If there is a law in place which states that I MUST pull over and let others pass even though I am doing the speed limit, it is an unfair law. Why should people who obey the law be penalized? When I’m in a hurry, I push the limit as much as I can to pinch 30 seconds of time out of my commute. I do this by not speeding. Why should I immediately lose that 30 seconds of commute time just because someone else wants to gain 30 seconds? To me, it sounds like an unfair tradeoff. The delinquents are benifitting by the very letter of the law.
It is not about trying to enforce the law by myself. It is not about vigilante justice. I am sick of people pointing that out. It’s about common courtesy BOTH ways. The guy who is speeding up to my rear end is endangering my life. I owe him nothing.
BTW…there is no way in hell I’m ever going to visit California. Truth be told…it sounds like a horrible state if people who abide by the law can be prosecuted.
When I come across people who are driving slow in the left hand lane, I will flash my lights twice. After that, I’ll honk twice. Even if the right lane is completely open, I deem it safer to pass on the left hand shoulder than to undertake another driver. If the driver won’t move over and let me pass, I’ll live with it…I’ll drive at a safe 3 second distance in the right hand lane. That way, I am letting others pass when they come across the slow pack. If someone comes along, I’ll wait for him to signal in front of me (if he deems it so necessary to pass on the right), and then I’ll let him in. Hopefully, the car in front gets the message eventually.
I always drive in the right hand lane unless I’m passing someone. If there are three lanes, I’ll drive in the middle (so I’m not in the merging traffic and I’m not in the fast lane). If there are four lanes, I’ll drive as far right as possible so as not to be in the way of merging traffic.
Daytime running lights? I’m assuming these are the same lights that are referred to as “parking lights” in the North Dakota Rules of the Road Handbook. In my defensive driving courses (I’ve taken three) I was taught to treat a car with only parking lights going as a parked car. Around here during the winter, that can be a very important differentiation to have to make when most everybody leaves their vehicles running unattended with exhaust billowing behind from the cold. However, I will always have my headlamps shining when my car is moving. It is safer that way…so other people can see me, not so I can see them.
The reason I slow down when tailgated is because it is what I was taught in defensive driving classes.
I interpret “less than normal” speed to be the speed limit or the flow of traffic. The flow of traffic only applies to roads with multiple lanes traveling in each direction.
Finally…I must admit, bearflag…it has been a joy to debate with someone who shows reason while supporting his views.
You too, bjohn13. I must say that your presnentation and argument are much more developed than others…
[ahem]
If you or someone else can muster up an interpretation of the law that actually goes one way or another on the issue, then I’m all ears. I have searched the California case law annotations of the statutes I cited, but came up with nothing helpful on the issue of whether a person moving at the maximum speed limit is required to pull over for faster drivers. You already know my take on it.
BTW, “running daylights” are headlights, not just parking lights. My understanding is that it is illegal to drive in California with parking lights only.
Nope, it is asses like you that seem to wish to control others. Those that want to pass are attempting to get away from the likes of you.
And you have a choice to participate in this discussion, unlike the other driver you want to trap behind your car.
LEAD FOLLOW OR GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY!
Try to have some common courtesy. “Slower traffic keep right”
This does not mean that you have been stripped of your autonomy, dignity, or given in to the will of anybody. It is just doing the right thing. If the one that passes you is exceeding the speed limit, keeping right or moving over is STILL doing the right thing - don’t you remember the rule about 2 wrongs don’t make a right?
** Blown & Injected**Let’s make up some front bumper stickers, in mirror writing, with our favorite traffic law: “Slower Traffic Keep Right!”
My rear license plate frame reads “YOU!!! Out of the gene pool!”
Not that the “speed limit monitors” actually read my plate frame, but is actually directed at them and it gives me a slight giggle (okay this probably moronic) when I get back in front of them after having had to pass them and then pull away.
That’s right, everyone going the speed limit is TRYING TO KEEP YOU DOWN, MANNNNN.
Semis and slowpokes in a passing lane is one thing, I was more concerned in my post with simple two lane roads.
I am driving on an interstate. The speed limit is 65 MPH. The minimum speed is 45 MPH. Yes, if for some reason, you are driving the minimum speed, is is all well and good to ride to the right. Most people who drive 45-55 are either old or their car is breaking down. The only reason they should drive to the right is because society requests it of them. That’s all well and good.
If I am going in the neighborhood of the speed limit (62 or over), I have the choice of driving in EITHER lane. If I am driving cross country on the interstate and am driving a 4 cylinder car, I usually hang to the right. That’s cool. If I am driving 70 MPH, it is reasonable that I can travel in either lane. If you are going over 70 and are tailgating me, YOU are breaking the law, not me. And yes, I will slow up if you flash your lights or gate me unless you are law enforcement, fire truck or ambulance
I REPEAT- THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PASSING LANE OR A FAST LANE. I have yet to see any speed limit signs that read LEFT LANE 70-RIGHT LANE 65. It isn’t there. If someone is driving slower than you on the interstate, there is the other lane. The law doesn’t give a fat fuck if you pass them on the right or the left. The law requires you to signal, have insurance, be sober and law abiding, have a license, and drive the posted speed limit.
Somebody cite me a left lane is the “passing lane” law.
If I am driving at a reasonable safe speed and you fly in behind me, and can’t pass, I humbly say “Tough shit”.
SP
Well it sounds like you realize that the driver’s handbook and the Vehicle Code are not the same thing, which is a start. I could not find a “10mph” rule anywhere in the North Dakota Vehicle Code. In fact, it would seem to be inconsistent with other provisions.
Maybe minimums were enacted by ordinance and don’t appear in the code - I don’t know. The point is, though, is that you aren’t entitled to hold up a big line of cars just because you think you’re close enough to the maximum speed limit. I would argue that if you are holding up a line or cars, then you are impeding the “normal and reasonable” movment of traffic.
Notice that slower cars are required to stay right, and the standard is “less than the normal speed of traffic”, NOT the statutory speed limit. So on multi-lane roads you don’t have the legal right to drive the speed limit in the left lane if you are holding up traffic. (I think you said you don’t do that, bjohn13, so then of course it wouldn’t apply to you).
Unfortunately for all the people you are holding up every day, I don’t see any requirement for you to pull over on single-lane, no-passing roads, no matter how much traffic backs up behind you. (Maybe North Dakota should change their motto to the “Me First” state). In California, no-passing zones have turnouts, and place signs saying “Slower traffic use turnouts”. Regardless, it’s just common courtesy, but some people don’t seem to have a lot of that, I guess.
You say it’s not about being a vigilante, yet you keep harping about how others shouldn’t be breaking the law. If you would let the guy behind you pass, he wouldn’t be endangering you. And because you don’t want to waste the 10 seconds of YOUR time it would take to pull over and let a car pass, you are willing to waste a great deal more of the time of the person you are inconveniencing. You seem like a very selfish person.
Good! Stay the hell out. We don’t want dicks like you here. We certainly don’t need any more self-important people who can’t spare 10 seconds of their time to be courteous.
Then your assumption is wrong. They are 2 completely different things.
They are cited all over this thread. Do you know how to read?
If I am traveling the speed limit on the highway, I can drive in either the right or left lane. I drive on the left. If someone is behind me and they are going faster than I, they are breaking the law by violating the speed limit.
SP
Will somebody please fix that broken record?
BUT…
You want a cite showing that the left lane is the fast lane? Here it is again.
The fact that you’re asking for something that I posted before shows that you were
(1) too lazy and inconsiderate to read it the first time, which explains why you can’t just move over for someone; or
(2) too stupid to understand it, which also explains why you won’t move over for anyone.
So, in conclusion, Shep Proudfoot is either too lazy and/or stupid to be bothered with, and I am probably wasting my time and effort trying to get him to see beyond his little cocoon. If I keep responding to his posts, soon, I will be seen as an idiot for trying to reason with one.
To all the slow drivers in the fast lanes: Fuck your “right” to be in that lane, fuck the laws about the speed limit and what constitutes a passing lane, and fuck your attitude about the lead footed drivers out there. You are creating an unsafe driving environment by being there, whether you have the law on your side or not. Stacking cars up behind you or forcing people to pass on the right causes everyone stress, causes extreme danger, and causes people to die. Is it really worth your death to prove your point? Just stay on the right and let the faster drivers pass you. Stop being so indignant, open your eyes, and have a good look at the big picture. Driving safely is more important than driving “legally.”
Incidentally, every highway in Alberta has “Slower Traffic Keep Right” signs posted.
Oh my God, what if they guy behind you who wants to go faster than the posted speed limit is a FEDERAL AGENT, and he is transporting a KNOWN TERRORIST, but for security reasons this is a quiet run.
Because of your lane-hogging ways, it takes an extra 30 minutes to reach the Monkey-Squat County Federal Facility. During the extra 30 minutes required to reach the Monkey-Squat County Federal Facility, the TERRORIST is able to escape his chains and overpower the FEDERAL AGENT. Naturally, the TERORRIST then does on to DOMINATE THE WORLD and bring and END TO LIFE AS WE KNOW IT!
All because you won’t recognize the law.
You missed one, it is possible that SP just an asshole and/or all of the above!
Dread Pirate Jimbo: Good Post 
I see those signs all over the US too. I do about 20,000/year accross about 10 states (been through the 48 states in a car at one time or another) and I have yet to see one sign that says keep right unless you are already going the speed limit.
I don’t care if you want to sit in the left lane if theres no other traffic. However, if there is other traffic, people going faster than you are going to have to weave in and out of lanes to pass, and they are probably going to get stuck in traffic. So, as I stated before, you have the option of blocking traffic and creating dangerous situations for no good reason, or the option of staying in the right lane & still getting to go the speed you want.
To reply to the person who said “if there is a car coming up at a speed of 10mph faster than me, it is dangerous to switch lanes because they may be doing so to pass me”. Thats what turn signals are for.
Thanks, dude. I just think people need to understand that here in the real world you have to pick your battles and being hit from behind by someone doing 135 in a 100 zone because I wouldn’t make way doesn’t seem like a very noble way to go out.