Fucktards who drive less than the speed limit on no passing roads.

The BBQ Pit
121

In some cases, you may be right. But what you’re doing here is judging others based on an assumption you made, and then being vindictive about it by blocking people in the left lane, and creating a dangerous situation.

Say you were right. Say that every single person on the highway that wanted to go fast was doing it for a sense of control. Why should that matter at all when it comes to letting them pass? The fact that its much safer and makes much more sense to not “hog” a lane has absolutely nothing to do with anybody’s motives.

If you’re stopping people from going fast because you THINK they’re doing it for a sense of control, who is really being the controlling one?

Well, now I know that there are three types of lane hoggers.

  1. The kind that just don’t care
  2. The kind that are too stupid to know what they are doing
  3. The kind that actively and vindictively try to impede traffic

If I were going fast for a sense of control, I’d probably be pissed off if someone was going faster than me. Nope, I move to the right and let them pass. If the rest of traffic was going as fast as I wanted to, I’d be happy about it. I certainly wouldn’t speed up even more for a sense of “control”.

122

on the topic of dangerous situations

There are some 8 lane highways that I frequently travel. At times it seems like there is lots of traffic. I mean about 200 cars and trucks all bunched up on about a 3/4 mile section of highway - no place to pass or to exit safely. Then around the bend you can see several miles of road. Nope, no real heavy traffic, just a fucktard or two jamming up the road. After about 10 miles or so you finally break out of the cluster fuck and find a nice open section of road. Much safer and less stressful driving. Makes it real obvious why the signs say slower traffic keep right.

123

Last time I’m going to try to defend this view. It seems to be falling on deaf ears.

This is regarding two lane roads, not four lanes or more. I firmly believe in keeping to the right on four lane roads unless one is passing.

However…when it comes to two lane roads, I’d like to give an example:

I’m leaving for work at my normal time. I have a twelve mile drive in front of me. I usually leave early enough so that I arrive at work about 20-30 minutes early. However, at the last minute before I leave my house, my neighbor calls me regarding a minor emergency involving his kids. Something has come up and his kids need a ride to school.

So I agree. I call work to tell them that I may possibly be a minute or two late even though I have extra time budgeted. Unfortunately, an important meeting is scheduled for that morning. I absolutely have to be there at 8 o’clock.

I figure I have a half hour budgeted…no problem. But we all know how kids can be. Voila…the slight detour ends up costing me about 25 minutes. Suddenly, I don’t have any time to waste.

So I make my way towards work on the two lane road. I drive the speed limit (as always) pushing it to a mile or two over in an effort to possibly pinch 30 seconds over the trip. I am in a hurry, but I still feel my foremost responsibility is to adhere to the law.

However, somebody a few cars bunch up behind me. For some reason, all of these cars feel the need to go 10-15 miles over the limit. I don’t care. They can speed all they want. They can pass me in the other (oncoming traffic lane) if they want.

However, what I’m being told in this thread is that I must pull over for these people regardless of how much of a hurry I am in. That is absolutely absurd. Furthermore, if I decide to speed up and go with the flow of traffic, I am the one who will get a ticket if a cop comes along the other way since I am the first one in a line of speeding cars (we call that a “speed-breaker”).

No. I don’t believe either choice is viable. In fact, I think both choices are ridiculous. I am going to keep driving the legal speed limit. I have seen no viable evidence in any of the cites of this thread that suggest otherwise. The normal flow of traffic can be interpreted to mean the speed limit. The only reason “normal” is used is simply because there are times where someone should drive below the speed limit (in snow, rain, at night, etc).

If a cop pulled me over for doing that, I simply wouldn’t be able to control my laughter. That is how absurd it sounds to me.

Now…on the other hand…if I’m on a four lane road and people seem to be flying by me, I will speed up a tad to more resemble the speed of traffic. Four lane roads are usually much safer than two lane roads…and as long as there is someone in front of me, I am not the speed breaker. Furthermore, I don’t drive a flashy sports car, so I’m not the guy the cops are going to pick out when they come the opposite direction and see a pack of cars doing 20 mph over the limit.

Hopefully, at least one person will understand my point here. I’m not asking for a complete 180…I’m just asking people to realize that I am oftentimes in a hurry as well. I shouldn’t be penalized for adhering to the law…and I will assert that right until I reach the point where I feel my life is in danger.

124

bjohn13, I’d like to say that I am impressed. You went to a great deal of trouble yesterday to dig up some info to support your position. You’ve laid out your reasoning very clearly, and very understandably. So, OK, in the situation you describe, you are right. If ever I get stuck behind you in North Dakota, I’ll be cool. (Unlikely - it’s one of the three states I’ve never been, but Alaska and Hawaii are higher on the wish list.)

You must see, though, that you are a rare example. I don’t expect to find you clogging up the left lane, and crowing about blocking others. I don’t expect to find you in the mountains going 20 mph below the limit without pulling out. Those that do that are assholes, pure and simple.

125

bjohn

I was repling to lots of replies, not just you.

For the record, if you are going at least the limit, you may still bunch up a lot cars but I would not be tailgating or flashing you.

The OP was about slow when one can’t pass then speed up (even above the limit) just to not be passed - that is just a proper attempt to be a fucktard

126

I really don’t see why you would expect other people to give a rat’s ass that you fucked up your time-budgeting. Are you really that self-centered?

We’re NOT TALKING about roads where passing is allowed. We are talking about NO PASSING ROADS. It’s right there in the thread title for crying out loud. If it’s safe for others to pass you, then you needn’t pull over. But if they can’t pass you, and you are holding them up, THEN it’s courteous to pull over and let them by, NOTWITHSTANDING your little time-budget snafu. Why are you having such a hard time with the concept? If the road doesn’t have turnouts or a shoulder, then don’t worry about it. But if it does, then use them.

If I’m on a 2-lane mountain road where passing in the oncoming lane is unsafe, and another car comes up right behind me, I will look for the first opportunity to move to the right and let him pass. Why is that so absurd? It just seems like a nice thing to do. I’m not going to play “cop” and look at my speedometer to see if he’s speeding. And the other driver will generally wave to thank me for my courtesy. And I can’t even imagine having a long line of cars behind me, and wide-open road in front of me. I mean, I would feel like such a jerk for holding up all those people. It would be incredibly embarrassing. And for me to hold up all those people just because I don’t want to be 30 seconds late to wherever I’m going would be preposterous. Seriously, how long could it take to pull over to the right and let some cars pass you? 5 seconds? 10? You’ve got to be joking if you say that’s going to make you late.

127

I hear you, bjohn13.

Your hypo falls in the cracks here. The OP was a rant about someone going 10 MPH under the limit with no opportunity to pass. I agree with the sentiments of the OP in this regard.

Another situation is what Shep Proudfoot offers. That is, blocking the left lane when other lanes are available for slower traffic. This is extreme and outrageous harmful and offensive conduct.

You are suggesting a situation where you are already speeding, but the people behind you really want to fly. I see the dilemma, your interpretation of law supporting your position, and the public policy argument in support of your interpretation.

Why should an individual have to bend to the will of the “majority” when the will of the majority is to commit an unlawful act at the expense of the individual? Why should everyone else’s desire to make better time supercede your desire to make good time? Those are damn good questions.

In my view, the harm of disrupting the normal flow of traffic outweighs the right of the individual driver to travel at the speed limit, despite the fact that the normal flow of traffic is above the legal speed limit. Since you can’t legally drive faster, you must pull over. This probably stems from my belief that the speed limit is artificially low to begin with.

128

Where is the OP, anyway??

129

Oh… and “the normal flow of traffic” being established by the 5 cars behind you is reasonable, IMHO. One tailgater can go to hell, but once you get 5 cars backed up, then the “flow of traffic” has been established to be faster than whatever speed you are driving, and the harm of disrupting that flow has been compounded five-fold. At that point, you should yield.

130

bearflag: I respect your argument, though I don’t agree with it. You speak of some instances where I would yeild…if I’m driving down a mountain slope with a semi behind me, you bet I’ll pull over. Driving one of those rigs is tough enough the way it is without having to worry about the breaks overheating.

But I think we have both offered all we can about the argument…so I’ll let it ride (I’m also glad to know that I’m not the only one who sometimes posts 2-3 posts in a row).

This Year’s Model: Thank you for the words. I try to be considerate as possible when I’m on the road. The only basic conception I have a problem with in this thread is the one that blowero keeps bringing up. He’s yelling at me for being inconsiderate while he is driving 20 miles per hour over the speed limit endangering people’s lives. The ONLY reason that the law needs to be brought up in this case is to determine who really is the inconsiderate one. However, that argument doesn’t really concern you. We do have a few items here in North Dakota that are really worth seeing…for instance, we have beautiful sunsets. Plus, we get about four days of autumn where the weather is truly beautiful. We also get four days of spring, but that is usually followed by another month of winter before summer suddenly hits full force one day. Ironically, tourism is our number two industry (behind agriculture)…but I figure that is simply because North Dakota is on the way to a lot of places. It is not uncommon to drive 50 or more miles down the interstate without seeing another vehicle. However, drivers in Fargo are absolutely nuts. I swear we give out our drivers licenses in raffles.

Blowero: I have obviuosly not fucked up my time budget as bad as the people who want to go 20-30 miles per hour over the speed limit. Who’s the inconsiderate one again?

Blown and Injected: I was replying mostly to blowero. I just can’t see his viewpoint… I have agreed with 90% of what is in thread (or at least to the point to where we have run down). The only real debate left (as I see it, all of the others have been refuted one way or the other) is the one in which we currently engage. I have said my words as carefully as possible only to find someone who thinks this: I haven’t been late for work in more than five years because I budget an extra half hour into every morning in order to make sure I am prepared if along comes something unexpected. Somehow, that makes me a poor manager when it comes to time.

131

This Year’s Model: a final point…I’m actually a little embarassed at some of the cites I have used in this thread. I will forever abide by the legitimacy of my North Dakota Rules of the Road Handbook…we were always required to have a copy of it in our work trucks. It has been correct in every case in which it has been challenged.

However, note that I have not been able to find a cite in that handbook for the ten mile under rule of which I spoke. The only cite I have is from thes safety permit test. I have caused quite a conundrum with the DMV as a result of this. I phoned my friend this morning asking for a cite. He provided the very cite which bearflag pointed out. I asked to go read the law and then call me back. I haven’t heard from him since…and he didn’t take my calls for the rest of the day. I feel a letter to the editor of my local paper might be in order. Apparently, the drivers permit test contradicts the law. If that is the case, I deserved a perfect score on mine (lol…nearly fifteen years later, I finally bothered to look it up)…

132

A nice hypothetical situation. It’s easy to judge what would be the right thing to do when you know you’ll never be the one going the speed limit.

HERE’S AN IDEA: Maybe courtesy means not trying to make people pull over so you can be home 2 minutes quicker. Probably not, but it makes about as much sense as your idea of courtesy.

133

Huh??? Who said I drive 20 mph over the speed limit?:confused: I just don’t act like I’m the Lord God of speed enforcement when there is a car behind me. Don’t start making up shit I never said; that’s really pathetic.

You are, friend.

Blown and Injected: I was replying mostly to blowero. I just can’t see his viewpoint… I have agreed with 90% of what is in thread (or at least to the point to where we have run down). The only real debate left (as I see it, all of the others have been refuted one way or the other) is the one in which we currently engage. I have said my words as carefully as possible only to find someone who thinks this: I haven’t been late for work in more than five years because I budget an extra half hour into every morning in order to make sure I am prepared if along comes something unexpected. Somehow, that makes me a poor manager when it comes to time.
[/QUOTE]

Here’s what you wrote:

Perhaps you are writing in a different language where “don’t have any time to waste” means “have a half hour to spare”?
:rolleyes:

Look, I agree with most of what you’re saying. But I honestly don’t get why it puts such a burr in your butt to let someone pass you. It’s only gonna cost you 5 seconds, but it saves the other driver a lot more time.

Not sure what you’re getting at. If you’re trying to say I have never let another car pass me, you’re wrong.

Yeah, but I don’t believe anyone here has suggested “making people pull over”. Certainly not me. I’m talking about doing it voluntarily, as a courtesy.

134

Bearflag70, the “Normal rate” of speed is the speed limit! If the normal rate of speed in the left lane is 80 MPH in a 65 MPH zone then I am breaking the law by going less than rate of speed, rendering the speed limit moot and unenforcable. So, know the laws are in conflict, at least in your mind.

Most of my life, I have driven mainly 4 cylinder automobiles. When I drive on the interstate, I travel the limit plus 5 to 10 MPH. I have had assholes tailgate me while I am doing 70-75 MPH in the left. They are breaking the law by exceeding the posted limit. There is a right lane buster, go around me. I am not going to accomodate you, because you have stupid notions of fast lanes, slow lanes and passing lanes.

If for whatever reason, I am driving my auto at 5 or below under post, I will travel in the right. For two reasons, first the shoulder is there for my convience if needed and second so various asshats do not run me over enjoying their fantasy “fast lane”.

I have never had a ticket for driving too slow. I have never had a ticket for being in the wrong lane at the wrong speed. I have yet to read speed limit signs that denote a higher speed in one lane or the other. Slower speed go right is of course correct, that’s not my argument. THE DEAL FOR THE LAST TIME IS THAT THE SPEED LIMIT IS DEFINED AS NORMAL RATE OF SPEED!

SP

135

shep, you are a bad driver and a road hazard. I hope that when you have your bad accident from driving so dangerously that you don’t take any innocents out with you.

136

I disagree. The normal rate of speed is the flow of traffic, not the speed limit.

Also, if the flow is 85 in a 65, then you are not violating the law for going 65… you are violating the law by failing to move over to the right to accommodate those going 85.

137

Check this out…

According to the canons of interpretation of statutes, if the language of a statute is not clear on its face, then you turn to legislative intent to try to interpret the statute.

First, the statutes…

Note that section 22400 says that you can’t get busted for impeding traffic caused by going too slow if your speed is in compliance with the law (i.e., not above the speed limit).

Now, for Shep Proudfoot, note that section 21654 starts by telling you to ignore speed limits when applying this section (i.e., “Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits”). Then it says that if you are going less than the “normal speed of traffic”, you gotta keep right. Based upon this language, the “normal speed of traffic” is distinguishable from the speed limit. They are not the same.

Note further that this section does NOT contain the same exception found in section 22400 that says you are not violating this section if your speed is in compliance with the law. Therefore, if your speed is in compliance with the law and you are blocking traffic in the left lane, you are not violating the minimum speed law (section 22400), but you are violating the slow-moving vehicles law (section 21654) by your failure to keep to the right.

Now, for bjohn13, I’ll give this one last crack. Note that the “normal speed of traffic” is not the same as the speed limit, (supra). Note further that section 21656 also does not provide an exception saying that you are not violating this section if your speed is “in compliance with the law” the same way section 22400 does. Therefore, if your speed is in compliance with the law and you are blocking 5 or more cars on a two-lane highway, you are not violating the minimum speed law (section 22400), but you are violating the turn-out law (section 21656).

The fact that the legislature included an exception for “speed in compliance with the law” in section 22400, but did not include the same exception in sections 21654 and 21656 shows that the legislature did not intend to make such exception with respect to sections 21654 or 21656. This interpretation is buttressed with respect to section 21645 by the fact that the legislature included the language “Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits” as a preface to that section.

Therefore, these statutes should be interpreted to place a duty on fucktards to move over even if such fucktards are going the speed limit.

[I know this only applies in California].

138

I think that shep realizes that he’s come across here as an ignorant fool and is too proud and arrogant to admit it, so he keeps reiterating his position which has been proven wrong by cited vehicle codes, traffic signs and common knowledge numerous times. He has offered no proof whatsoever of his claims and has repeatedly ignored the proof of others arguing opposite of him. Basically, the equivelant of arguing that the sky is yellow even after walking outside and looking up.

Argumentativeness can be quite harmful when it becomes pathological shep. I can’t imagine you have too many friends. I only hope that you’re arguing for the sake of arguing and don’t actually believe any of the foolish positions you’re taking. Otherwise, please tell me what state you reside in so I can stay far, far away.

139

Hijack…

Arrrrgggghh! I can so relate to this one!

(Why do they call it “Tourist Season” if we’re not allowed to SHOOT them???).

One hundred fifty some odd miles south of Anchorage is the beautiful Kenai Peninsula, home to halibut fishing charters, camping, “real Alaska”.

On the way, (a mere 10 minutes outside of Anchortown in fact) one can see whales in the inlet and Sheep on the mountain on a good day.

Unfortunately, much of the road from here to the Kenai is a mere two lane highway. During tourist season it’s heavily driven by little old blue hairs in Great BIG motorhomes. Average speed is 35-40 (on a 65mph highway) unless they see a moose, or some fireweed, or a wave out in the inlet that might be a whale or otter, and then, they slow down even more (ARRRRGGGHHH).

And despite the long, wide easily accessed pullouts (for viewing scenery), and the signs which state clearly “DELAY OF 5 OR MORE VEHICLES UNLAWFUL, USE PULLOUTS” (not to mention the hourly public service announcements, stating the same thing, on the radio and TV during tourist season), and are posted at least every 5 miles or so in no passing zones, almost NONE of them will pull over and they appear to be oblivious to the lines of 50 or more cars idling behind them and their pokey old motor homes.

140

Geez…Shep, if you really think a “passing lane” is a “foolish notion” I sure wish you’d go get a copy of a driver’s manual for your state, then come back here after you read it and let us know if it backs up your ideas.