" I’m afraid that for me to become a Creationist would be to detract from the glory of God. "
And how does it detract? You’d rather say “Has God really said” He created the heavens and earth, and think this somehow brings God glory?
Didn’t God tell you to leave and not come back?
Thanks for your reply, J_sum1. I’ll reply later when I have more time.
For now, I’d like to ask the FC’s this:
Would you be pleased if a Mormon said a “skeptic’s prayer” like I described? i.e., "God, if the Book of Mormon is really false teaching, please give me the open-mindedness to reject it and convert to the religion that the FC’s follow. " Do you feel that that would be an appropriate prayer?
For that matter, I’ve already asked that question with regard to Muslims, but I got no answer.
J_sum1, I have two comments about the prayer that you suggest to me:
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Why should I say your prayer if you won’t say mine? For that matter, why should I discuss CvE with you if you have already shut your ears to anything I have to say? Why should I treat you as a prophet of God and sit at your feet to get God’s Own Truth from your mouth, if you dismiss everything I have to say before I’ve even said it?
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How do you know I haven’t already said your prayer, or one very much like it?
As for whether or not I’m a “real atheist,” let’s turn that around. Neither you nor any of the others who have mocked and insulted me in this thread are real Christians. Sound good?
Many shall say, “Lord, Lord”…
Could you folks clarify for me who does and does not have a relationship with God? Yes or no, for each group:
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evolutionist Christians
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Mormons
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JW’s
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Christian Scientists
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Jews
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Muslims
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Hindus
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atheists
hey! me too!
But it isn’t a list of FC’s. It’s a list of FC’s who consider their opinions on matters of religion to be so infallible that there’s no need to ask God for the gift of open-mindedness.
Ohhhhh
leave me out then, sorry.
carry on.
Nomadic_One, you still haven’t clarified a point I asked you before.
Can someone be a real Christian if they don’t speak in tongues?
I’m not a fundamentalist (anymore), but I probably wouldn’t say it on minor technical grounds; I don’t like the presumption “If I’m wrong in believing A, then teach me how B is actually correct” (not that I have a problem with evolution, as I said, this is just a technical issue).
I’d sooner go for “Open my eyes to the truth, Lord, show me the hard facts of reality as they truly are, even if this makes me feel uncomfortable, lead me your own way, wherever that may be, and please help me to follow diligently”.
Quick technical note: To quote something, whether it’s another person’s post or outside material type [ quote ] and [ /quote ] at either end of it, omitting the spaces.
Svt4Him, I do not say, “Has God really said?”. There is no doubt in my mind that God created all that is, and all that shall be. To me, the intricate and beautiful mechanism that has resulted in the world as it is, including not only evolution, but plate tectonics and the mechanism that creates stars is far more wonderful and awe-inspiring than a simple, “Poof! There it is.” As I’ve said in threads relating to evolution, to me, it’s the difference between a store-bought sweater and one made with my own hands. As someone who can’t resist jigsaw puzzles, the thought that we have been given this wonderful puzzle to solve, and that the finding the solution will take much longer than my short lifetime is what makes God far more glorious and wonderful than the Creationist take on things.
CJ
Not much time to write at present, bit a couple of quick answers.
C&E debate mentioned because it was brought up in Ben’s prayer. Obviously a deep and interesting one and often hotly debated. Not shutting my ears, but I would be wanting some pretty convincing evidence to move me from my position. I may start a thread on that when I have a bit more time – canvassing for the kind of evidence I may need. Yes it is an important part of teh bible, but not a fundamental one in that it pertains directly to issues of salvation. Hope that answers CJ. (You do keep me on my toes Polycarp.)
No, I don’t consider mysel to be a “prophet of God”.
I think the best answer to this question was Shodan/s “No”. Not so much for the content as for the circular reasoning.
Ben, interested in your story and what you think. feel free to email.
Is this from one of the e-mails?
I asked you this question on the SDMB. Instead of asking me where the question was asked, why not just answer it?
I agree with jsum_1. (Minus the CvE stuff, which I have no opinion on.) And Qadgop too: what I pray for (or try to pray for) is to do God’s will, not to gain debate points. (Well, y’know, unless that was His will or something.)
Where does the prayer ask God to help you win debate points?
This is just my opinion, but I’d say all of the following has a relationship with God of some sort…Although I will admit I’m a little conflicted on saying that an atheist has a relationship with God…How can you have a relationship with something you don’t believe in?
Of course, I’m looking at this from the human side of the coin, ie, those groups who think they have a relationship with God; as opposed to God’s side of the coin. I would imagine that God had a relationship with everyone, but I don’t really know.
If that made any sort of sense…
I agree with Meatros. We all have a relationship with God, even if that relationship is one of rejecting Him. There is only one exception:
An absolute atheist, not an anti-theist (Has the positive belief “There is no God.”) but the absolute a-theist (has not even the concept of “god”), could be said to have no relationship at all to Him.
Can I hijack for a second about the Prayer of Humble Access that Siege quoted above? We used to say that in our services (even though we used Rite II) before communion and I always thought it was beautiful.
However, one time I visited another Episcopal church that was decidedly “progressive” (i.e. liberal) and the preist happened to mention that the prayer offended her as a woman. Huh?? Poly, Siege, have you ever heard this complaint before?
No, I haven’t. In fact, I rather like the way it obliquely refers to a woman ("We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. "). I’m an unabashed feminist, and I see nothing demeaning to women in it. In fact, it’s one of my favorite prayers. That makes me confused twice in one thread.
CJ
I wouldn’t say it. :eek:
But there is a being that does want us to say it. Funny, as I read this, it sounded like something Tim Lahaye would make Carpathia say. lol 