Fur rears it's new head and I won't stand for it!

The BBQ Pit
41

One of the big issues that I have with this discussion is whether people should be prohibited from having a “extravagant luxury” or “unnecessary extravagance” on occasion because some deem it “wrong.” I think people should be able to spend their money the way the want and if they can afford a co-op on Madison Avenue, or a Ferrari or a mink coat they should be permitted to.

Now, I’m not a big fan of factory farms of fur farms, for that matter, but it seems to me that many of the polymers that have been developed over the past century are a direct result of research done by the petroleum industry. Unregulated proliferation of industry developing and manufacturing non-natural fibers and fake-leather products is of far more concern to me than a relatively small industry that provides such unnecessary extravagant luxuries as fur coats for a small minority of the population. The degree of environmental damage that the petroleum industry can to to the environment seems to me to be far greater than the fur industry can to the semi-wild animals that live in fur farms.

And I am completely against any furrier who traffics in hides of endangered or threatened wild animals.

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italic emphasis mine

My mother-in-law has a Range Rover, which is an unnecessary extravagance. But is it wrong? Should she drive a Chevelle?

I have an ass-kicking pair of diamond earrings (the nicest piece of jewelry I own, probably), which is an unnecessary extravagance. Should I wear CZ instead?

I also have a big, high-maintainence dog who eats a lot of expensive food and has high vet bills, which some people would consider an unnecessary extravagance. Should I get rid of him?

I think you should decide what it is you are against: fur, or unnecessary extravagance. If fur is wrong, surely it is because of the way it is raised or taken, or because of a morality question having to do with the sanctity of all life, or something like that, not merely because it is extravagant or unnecessary or pointless.

I could claim that damn near everything you or I own is an unnecessary extravagance.

43

Well, people have brought up some good points here. I’ve always been “against fur” but some of the points here make me think. I guess in reviewing my beliefs on this, I would say I am against wild-harvested fur or that from an endangered species (tiger, etc. - not that you’d probably be able to get a real tiger skin jacket into the US).
My mom pulled out my great-grandmother’s seal skin coat, which made us both a little nauseous just thinking about it, but, God bless America, that thing is soft!. Unfortunately, the skin is rotting away from age and it has a couple rips in the fur. Very hard and expensive to repair but I’m tempted.

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According to these links:

http://www.furisdead.com/pr.html

it was either LA or Ohio. They protested on the 28th in Beverly hills, which isn’t that impressive ( it was 85 degrees that day). The ohio one was tougher, I’d think.

Not to hijack a thread on, err, realism in soap operas, but in looking for the links about this article (because I was dissappointed in missing seeing naked women, and, no, I don’t think that makes me a bad person) I find that leather is PETAs new target. I cannot say how excited this makes me. I’m going to bloomies in Century City in all leathers and seeing if I can get some malnorished vegetarian wannabe hippy to throw paint on me.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

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Hey, I care about cows! In fact, here is the shirt I’m wearing right now: http://opalcat.com/livejournal/goveggiesweatshirt.jpg (yes, I took this picture just for you! :D)

And fur pisses me off no matter who is wearing it. I don’t care if it’s old (hey, I got this lampshade made of jew-skin from the holocaust. It isn’t offensive because it happened a long time ago!) or if it was farm-bred. It turns my stomach to see it and my opinion of the person in question drops through the floor.

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Maybe some do. I don’t. In addition to the shirt I’m wearing right now, I also designed this one: http://fathom.org/opalcat/store/6.jpg to address just this issue.

I object to leather, fur, meat (including fish and snails), etc. No matter how cute or not cute. I don’t squish bugs either.

So please don’t call me a hypocrite. (you didn’t, but don’t)

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Right. Ranch raised fur is totally OK. No suffering there. Nope. None. Anal electrocution is fun, can’t you see the joy on this guy’s face? http://www.furisdead.com/raw/analelect.jpeg

And this is such a good home: http://www.furisdead.com/raw/3.jpg
http://www.furisdead.com/raw/foxcages.jpg

Sorry, but it’s a hot topic for me and this is the pit.

48

I could post links to photos of homeless humans freezing to death on the street, but I’m afraid they wouldn’t get as much of a kneejerk reaction as photos of cuddly little furry things.

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Not to mention it would be completely irrelevant. There are charities and government programs to help the homeless. No one is taking people from their homes and making them homeless by force. There isn’t a huge industry built around keeping people homeless. Homeless people aren’t bred to be homeless. They aren’t killed for the fashion tastes of others. Do you see how this is a difference?

This cruelty to animals is DELIBERATE! People are doing this ON PURPOSE to those animals. THAT is why it gets a reaction from me.

50

Icky, fur.
What I meant about OLD fur, was like, fur from the Victorian/Edwardian era, that is heirloom. No, I don’t like it, but I don’t believe in destroying historical things.

(Even if someone found lampshades made of skin-they belong in a holocaust museum, to show how truly sick some people were…)

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Yeah, but I still wouldn’t wear it was my point.

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Neither would I, but I wouldn’t get rid of it.

If it was a piece that belonged to an ancestor, I’d probably just pack it away and let it stay there.

53

Okay, wait. I don’t object to fur per se; if you want to wear it and feel okay with it that’s fine with me since we must all make our own choices. What I object to is that the fur industry was/is using the soaps as a vehicle to promote their wares. Let them take out advertising time like everyone else!

I object to the fact that it was absurd; I was waiting for a busboy to go by wearing a fur hat for crying out loud! You really had to see those three days to see how fucking absurdly BLATANT the message was. It was just annoying and stupid. I mean really! Beyond how stupid the soaps are in the first place this was just beyond the pail! Yes, people come back from the dead, have Doppelgangers, have children they “forgot” about and yes, that’s silly and weird but I EXPECT that from a soap. I sure as shit didn’t expect and didn’t like a three hour tour through the fucking fur industry!

And hey, you don’t have to agree with me. It bugged me, I spewed, turned it off and I’m damn happy about it all the way around!

P.S. Spoofe – again, this is where the fuck up started… again, my apologies about my brain fart. So, when we going for that beer? :slight_smile:

54

I’ve always considered wild harvested fur to be ‘better’ than farm raised fur. Here in Louisiana fur trapping is one of our largest industries and this give us a large incentive to keep huge areas of undeveloped natural lands. Isn’t this a win-win situation. The eco-hippies get large nature preserves and the capitalists get to make a buck and the get to live out a natural existance.

Side Note: I don’t know anyone who uses leg hold traps any more. The industry has switched over to conibear traps. (A conibear is like a large steel mouse trap. One wack and its over.

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RE: The comparison 'tween fur and the meat industry…

We’ve got synthetic clothing, even artificial fur and pleather, which makes better clothing than the real deal, which renders real fur “obsolete”. Meat, on the other hand, doesn’t have very many artificial alternatives, so it doesn’t make sense to try to phase out cattle ranches and such.

If someone owns a leather jacket or fur coat, I usually don’t care. Hey, I’m an easy-going guy. But what I can’t understand is people who has some piece of fur attached to every piece of clothing they own… it just seems odd. And in soap operas, well, it’s just silly (but soaps are just silly, anyway…).

Jeez, I dunno… where do you live?

Oh, and keep in mind that I’m underage, which rules out your favorite bar (I’m too lazy to try to drum up a fake ID).

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Hon, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah… but it’s okay that you are under age (lecherous leer) because (wink, wink) you can drink at my house… growl! Oh shit! Was that my out loud voice? Shit! I’ve GOT to stop doing that!

Uh, yeah, you should come over and I can tell you all about the Book Of Mormon. Yeah, that’s the ticket… you want to learn about the BOOK, right?! Of course you do!

Now, you’ll need some leather and spits and… was that my out loud voice AGAIN?! Damn it!

57

Seems like no one here is actually “pro fur” (pardon if I missed anyone), but there are people who are anit-fur (various reasons) and then there are folks who are pro-minding their own business who all seem to have the same reasoning of “It just does not bother me all that much or at all”.
Most of the anti-fur folks are against hurting things which I think is pretty damned noble. I don’t like to hurt stuff usually (yeah I like to fight people sometimes but I cried from guilt when I let a kid talk me into salting a slug one time-go figure) so I can dig that. The thing is tho’ telling other people they are “wrong”, like it’s some moral handed down from on high, to wear or not care about fur is fucking bullshit. It may be unnessisary, it may be gauche, it is probably and in most cases certainly tacky, but “wrong”? I’d say preaching your own morals to others is just as “wrong”, and hanging on to a self richeous pose is facetous and blatant posturing to make you feel superior to others.

Some of the anti-fur folks think it’s wrong because it’s opulent. WTF? Preaching on the proletariat? Owning a computer and a toilet is fucking opulent by the standard of living of 9/10ths of the world’s population. Condeming someone for valuing something that you do not simply because it does not appeal to you is about as new age bougious as you can get. You think that because somehthing is completely useless is a bad reason for wanting it or owning it then i suggest you give away all your worldly posessions to kids climing on garbage piles in Mexico, I don’t think they give a shit about your moralizing or judgement. Drop us a postcard about how much mor moral you are when you are living under a bridge, until then every toothless and homeless bum is your moral superior.
me personally
I usually don’t like fur at all, by “usually” I mean I would agree that much of it is tacky or just plain overdone -but- I own sable-lined gloves which I love, I have a numbered Native American tanned silver fox (numbered by the state because the native people are allowed to harvest a few in a traditional manner which leaves no seam), i have two antelope rugs (actually hanging up because as rugs they shed a lot), I have a bear rug (on the floor and an heirloom), I wear leather, eat stuff that runs/walks/swims and crawls and I really REALLY loved the coat Julieanne Moore had on in Magnolia. I’m evil incarnate I suppose. The point is, it is my karma not yours. Even the best treated animal that is raised to be harvested for whatever reason, meat, meal, hide, whatever is going to suffer at some point even if it is at the end. You don’t like it, don’t buy it but don’t moralize me for my taste if it does not affect you. If you feel strong enough to preach the martyrdom of the animals then go and break into ranches and set them free otherwise you are blowin’ smoke. I spoke on this before but some of you missed it. When I was a little kid I had a pet cow, named “Friend”. We ate him when he got big enough and he was tasty. I cried like hell too, but I had eaten steak before and I still eat it. You walk, you breath, you eat anything and you are killing something. You can’t deal with it then hurry along and become one with the universe, we could use the nitrates your holding.

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zen101 – before you go spewing you might want to really READ what other’s have to say. There were very few taking a “moral” stand against fur. Just as there were very few taking a moral stand “for” fur. You have a mish-mash of folks on all sides.

And, there are very, very few saying that fur, wearing or using, is morally “wrong”. FWIW you might want to look up not only the spelling but the meanings of “self righteous” and (I’m thinking) “factious” because if you don’t think the spelling or understanding of those words might make someone “feel superior to others” they sure as shit might feel superior to you if YOU don’t get them.

Hey, I’m just trying to help, hon! And I’m also thinking that bougious really should be bourgeoia. And then you digress into the hopelessness of other countries and that is interesting but, really, is beyond the scope… but if you think I don’t include the fact that some people struggle for the very basic necessities into my world view than you are sadly mistaken. It’s one of the very facts of life that has turned me from an avid, nay RABID consumer into someone who questions EVERYTHING I buy.

However; I have a hard time with a poster like you, who spews, rants, raves but misspells everything, and has about one coherent thought per ten. You did really well for about the first 100 words and then it just degenerated into a rant that went no where. I still, for reading your post three times, have no idea where you really are. It’s okay, no matter what? It’s okay if you eat it? It’s okay if you are poor? It’s okay if you SAY it’s okay… oh, well, that’s what EVERYONE else has been saying…

Grand! I guess we all agree then!

And since so many are so poor they can’t afford a computer and obviously you can could you maybe afford a dictionary? I mean, to look up the “big” words, maybe spell them correctly and hopefully use them in the correct sense? If not I’d be happy to send you a buck or two to help.

Hey, I’m just trying to help those less fortunate than I!

Oh, yeah, and, again, FWIW, your “big” concern about the poor I just really have to say, “Blow me, sugar cakes… blow me till it tickles…”

59

Funny how attitudes change. One of my earliest memories as a child is being fascinated for some reason by my grandmother’s fox stole - one of those things with the head attached, and little glass beads for the eyes. If you do some research, you discover that was very much in style while FDR was in office, popularized by Eleanor. There wasn’t even an attempt to disguise the fact that the fox had been bumped off to provide a fashion statement - it was sort of a proof of authenticity, I guess.

There’s possibly some moral high ground to be occupied by not wearing fur. If you feel that way, by all means, don’t wear it. But there are certainly larger issues to worry about than whether we drape ourselves with dead animals. Particularly if the dead animal in question isn’t an endangered species and is farmed for the purpose without wasting too many resources.

Putting on my leather jacket, and going to work.

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then hurry along and become one with the universe
I’m trying but the universe keeps throwing me back.