G. Gordon Liddy-Hero or Criminal?

Great Debates
41

[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
Thing is, though, our society requires only that criminals do their time - and Liddy did his.
[/quote]

Sure, but that’s nothing to do with redemption.

If you view using illegal hallucinogins as a moral failing, then yes. Personally, I don’t share that view, so Leary didn’t have any need for redemption in the first place.

I’m not sure how Liddy touring with Leary reflects one way or the other on his guilt for the crimes he committed during the Nixon administration. What’s the connection there?

Wait, where’d forgiveness come from? We were talking about redemption. I’m pretty sure those are two different concepts.

I think we might be using the idea of redemption in two different ways. I suspect you’re saying that, while he hasn’t atoned from his actions under Nixon, he’s done enough other, non-related stuff that partially counterbalances those crimes, right? I’m saying that, to be redeemed for what he did in the '70s, he has to do something to specifically rectify what he did in the '70s. Any and all other good acts he’s done do not redeem him for those crimes, not while he’s still refusing to admit that he did anything wrong. One might decide that, on balance, he’s done more good than harm, and judge him as a person on that basis, but on the subject of the Watergate break-ins and related criminal activity, he stands as unrepentedly guilty as the day he was sent to prison.

Going in a slightly different direction, I’m also not sure what he’s done that partially redeems him in any sense. Appearing on Fear Factor or touring with Tim Leary are morally neutral. They don’t make him a better person, nor do they make him a worse person. Even if we disagree over the necessity of contrition in the process of redemption, I think we can at least agree that he has to do something positive to be considered even partially redeemed. What has he done since he got out of prison that’s a moral positive?

True enough, but you know what the Chinese say about living in interesting times.

42

G. Gordon Liddy, August 26, 1994 by way of Wikepedia

Offered without comment, none being necessary.

43

[QUOTE=elucidator]
G. Gordon Liddy, August 26, 1994 by way of Wikepedia

Offered without comment, none being necessary.
[/QUOTE]

Liddy’s response, according to the same source:

44

Why, that certainly seems reasonable! At first glance, seemed a bit outrageous, but once you put it like that, plugging a fed between the eyes is entirely defensible, and one can certainly expect to be vindicated in court, should one live that long.

45

[QUOTE=Fireclown]
I just finished reading his autobiography, “Will”. Obviously he did a ton of questionable and illegal activities, but I must admit I admire the man for standing up for what he believes in, and not taking shit off anyone.
[/QUOTE]
Al Capone stood up for what he believed in and didn’t take any shit off anyone.

The question is what does the guy believe in? Having heard Liddy I think he believes in a state where the executive can do whatever is needed to maintain power.

46

[QUOTE=elucidator]
G. Gordon Liddy, August 26, 1994 by way of Wikepedia

Offered without comment, none being necessary.
[/QUOTE]
This was the stuff that I liked.

seriously

47

[QUOTE=acsenray]
…On a non-legal level, we are perfectly free to consider him an unredeemed criminal constitutional-violating dirtbag…
[/QUOTE]

As do I. He spoke to my former county’s GOP annual dinner a few years ago and just relished saying outrageous things to fluster the oh-so-respectable audience, which ate it up with a spoon. His conduct in the Nixon Administration and just about everything he’s done and said since, including his indefensible advice on how to kill Federal agents (even if they are barging into the wrong house with an erroneous warrant, you just can’t do that, bro), make him no better than pond scum, IMHO.

48

“When they did a celebrity Fear Factor, he was the oldest celebrity to compete, and actually did pretty well.”

That’s pretty much his audience isn’t? He’s a mook.

49

[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
his indefensible advice on how to kill Federal agents (even if they are barging into the wrong house with an erroneous warrant, you just can’t do that, bro)
[/QUOTE]

Can’t shoot at people who bust into your house and start shooting up the place, or can’t advice on how to kill ATF people?

50

[QUOTE=Bricker]
What are you talking about? What “position as a government official” did Liddy use to violate the constitutional rights of private citizens?? For that matter, what “position as a government official” did Liddy use to engage in criminal activity?
[/QUOTE]

Okay, fine, as the agent of public officials (or do you think that Nixon had the plumbers set up in his capacity as a private citizen?). To me, it’s close enough for baseball, especially since Liddy had spent most of his career in various official posts; he had spent enough time as an agent of justice to know better. The constitutional rights in question would be freedom from unreasonable search and the crimes would include burglary and damage to property.

51

[QUOTE=acsenray]
Okay, fine, as the agent of public officials (or do you think that Nixon had the plumbers set up in his capacity as a private citizen?). To me, it’s close enough for baseball, especially since Liddy had spent most of his career in various official posts; he had spent enough time as an agent of justice to know better. The constitutional rights in question would be freedom from unreasonable search and the crimes would include burglary and damage to property.
[/QUOTE]

Liddy wasn’t in the government at the time. He worked for the reelection committee.

Now, close enough counts only in horseshoes and hand grenades, as you well know. If we are to punish people directly for what their political committees do, we’re in for interesting times indeed.

52

Years ago I happened to tune into his radio show and listen for a while. Amidst a bunch of talk about politics, a woman called in to ask a very detailed question about a specific model of handgun. He answered the question in great detail, then said (I’m paraphrasing from memory, of course) “As a convicted felon, I am of course prohibited from owning firearms. Mrs. Liddy, on the other hand, has a formidable collection.” I enjoyed that.

53

He’s a criminal if only for his persecution of Timothy Leary and the Millbrook commune. :wink:

54

[QUOTE=Miller]
You know who didn’t take any shit? Hitler!

Mostly because of his life-long problems with constipation, but still…
[/QUOTE]

I hear your asshole gets pretty tight when you’re doing speed cocktails every day.

55

[QUOTE=Miller]

True enough, but you know what the Chinese say about living in interesting times.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well they have a traditional culture that provides them with meaning and purpose when things are boring. We’re Americans, our culture is one of prurient interest.

56

[QUOTE=Crotalus]
Years ago I happened to tune into his radio show and listen for a while. Amidst a bunch of talk about politics, a woman called in to ask a very detailed question about a specific model of handgun. He answered the question in great detail, then said (I’m paraphrasing from memory, of course) “As a convicted felon, I am of course prohibited from owning firearms. Mrs. Liddy, on the other hand, has a formidable collection.” I enjoyed that.
[/QUOTE]

I recall hearing Liddy’s account of how, when he was with the FBI, the facility maintained a posh office for visiting VIPs. When it was not needed for that purpose, the agents got turns using it.

The catch is that the fancy digs served as the “nut room” – whenever somebody would wander in to personally warn J. Edgar Hoover about an infiltration by shape-shifting Communists from Mars or some such thing, the receptionist would explain that Mr. Hoover was away, but Hoover’s right-hand man was available…

57

[QUOTE=Marley23]
Can’t shoot at people who bust into your house and start shooting up the place, or can’t advice on how to kill ATF people?
[/QUOTE]

The latter, if you mean “shouldn’t give advice” etc. Liddy himself referred to ATF agents, not anonymous hoodlums invading your home.

58

He can tell wonderful stories especially about his years in prison, just don’t bring up the subject of prison guards. This is a paraphrased conversation he had with a caller to his radio show.

Caller: Mr Liddy I think you are too hard on prison guards being a corrections officer I…

Liddy: Who do you correct? Prisoners are psychologically strong “A” type personalities you are neither.
You are not an officer you are a guard your job is to make sure there are 100 men in their cells
when you arrive and when you leave.

Caller: We do a very difficult and necessary job…

Liddy: You are a looser too dumb to be a cop what kind of person would voluntarily put themselves in
Prison every day. Tell me, you put your finger up men’s assess every day right?

Caller: Well, they have to be searched.

Liddy: Right, you put your finger up their asses because you are too dumb to have a respectable job.

59

[QUOTE=Miller]
Maybe it’s just me, but admitting that you did wrong is the absolute minimum you need to to receive any kind of redemption. If someone can’t do that much, then they haven’t redeemed themselves at all. Appearing on Fear Factor doesn’t cut it, I’m afraid.
[/QUOTE]
What about cameoing on Miami Vice?

Oh Og, I just dated myself, didn’t I? Next I’ll be cracking Oliver North jokes and quoting Spitting Image

[QUOTE=David Simmons]
Al Capone stood up for what he believed in and didn’t take any shit off anyone.
[/quote]
A true American hero. You can tell because he was played by Robert DeNiro, just like Jake MaLotta, Jimmy Burke, and Frank Rosenthal.

[QUOTE=David Simmons]
The question is what does the guy believe in? Having heard Liddy I think he believes in a state where the executive can do whatever is needed to maintain power.
[/QUOTE]
As far as I can tell, be believes in being an attention whore who says the most outrageous things he can come up with in order to be the center of attention. It’s nice work if you can get it, I suppose, but he strikes me as being more full of his own hype than any three random Hollywood celebrities combined.

Stranger

60

I can’t believe he got out of prison after just 4 1/2 years!