Game of Thrones 2.10 "Valar Morghulis" 6/3/12 No Book Spoilers

The old man was already dying before anything happened though, he might have just spent the whole time crawling to the tree to die peacefully.

Most of those questions can’t be answered without a spoiler (In fact, technically, they can’t be answered at all, since there has been some significant changes made in this plotline, but guessing is relatively safe for a reader, I think).

Either they left it out for suspense’s sake, or (the more I think about it, the more I believe it’s the case) because when they filmed season 2 they weren’t sure about how they would handle this plotline in season 3, and left as much possibilities open as they could : anybody could have burnt Winterfell for any reason, and Theon’s fate is undetermined.
The last question, though, is answered by the dying maester : Starks’ ennemies could come back at any time so the place isn’t safe. There’s no soldier left at least, and apparently from what is shown no survivor at all. The maester states that the only safe place they could safely reach now is the wall (of course, the wall doesn’t look like a very safe place to be at the moment, either, but the maester doesn’t know that).

So, leaving aside the mystery of what happened in Winterfell…

How do you think it would look for Jamie to return to KL as the prisoner of a lone female? No matter how badass she is, I don’t think he’s looking forward to that assault on his dignity.

He pretty much has to attempt an escape, doesn’t he? Of course he does, because there simply HAS to be a fight scene between those two. Amirite?

They better not flash-forward at the beginning of next season and skip how that all goes down.

Plus his son was prophetized to become the stallion who rides the world (or something like that), and then…puff… :confused:
I can only assume it was a purposeful derailment of the “prophecies always turn out to be true in fantasy” trope.

I hate to say it, because I’m sure it was mostly a construct of the warlocks… but I was touched by the idea that Khal Drogo and his unborn son are sitting outside of the Night Lands waiting for Dany to come join them.

sniffle

So then I assume the plan of the warlocks was to generate those dreams for her - and for her to choose to live in one of them. She’d be in the real world in some sort of trance-like state, mentally living in that dream, but physically close to the dragons so they could still grow.

So her triumph wasn’t in having her dragons set the warlock on fire - that felt easy and anticlimactic - that was just the finishing move. Her real triumph was not succumbing to the temptation to stay in the dream world.

I don’t think so. The only things mentioned about them I can recall were :

-They have a tradition of flaying people and in any case aren’t bent on keeping prisonners.

-Lady Stark stated they couldn’t be trusted.

When did Catelyn say the Boltons can’t be trusted?

Aha!

I thought she said the Greyjoys couldn’t be trusted and the Freys shouldn’t be messed with. I don’t recall her and Robb talking about the Boltons, i mean the dude was always right there.

Nope, that was Greatjon Umber. Don’t think we’ve seen him since.

[QUOTE=clairobscur]
-They have a tradition of flaying people and in any case aren’t bent on keeping prisonners.

-Lady Stark stated they couldn’t be trusted.
[/QUOTE]

We also know that Roose enjoys glowering menacingly in the background without saying a word :). He doesn’t seem to approve of Robb’s little squeeze, not even a little bit.

I was a bit confused by Dany’s visions. I can see why she’d be tempted by Drogo and the boy. But there was no temptation for her to stay in the throne room. If Pyat Pree wanted to make the throne a temptation, he would have filled it with people bowing and cheering for their new queen.

So what was the point of the destroyed throne room? Was it a prophecy that in the end, she’ll realize that the Iron Throne isn’t worth the trouble?

Robb is a damn fool to haul off and marry Talisa like that, though… no matter how great a lay she is, and how talented she is with medicine. Robb is a king now. King of a small-ish area, to be sure, but still a king, and kings shouldn’t be breaking their betrothal vows. Even that skunk Joffrey was (faux)hesitant to break his betrothal to marry someone clearly wealthier with better connections, because he’d given his word that he would marry Sansa. And he didn’t want to anger the gods.

Robb’s going to lose a lot of respect for this - unless Talisa happens to secretly be someone important in her own right (doubtful) - the marriage is going to bring him nothing but crap. Crap from the Freys, crap from his mother, crap from his inner circle, crap from the people he aims to reign over… Honestly, the only people who are likely to be pleased by this development will be Talisa’s (unseen) family. (“Whoa, seriously? You landed the KING? And we thought you’d be an old maid picking over those bandages forever!”)

It’s looking less and less likely that Arya will live up to her Frey bretrothal, either. The Freys already resented the Starks and Tullys for never intermarrying with them - this is going to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

When Cat hammered out the arrangement, there were several facets - Robb had to take one of the Frey boys on as a squire or some such, with a knighthood in good time. Arya had to marry a specific Frey boy. Robb could have his pick of any of the Frey girls. Catelyn tacitly admitted that they were all pretty ugly. And all of the men that Frey had (except a small contingent that would stay behind and guard the bridge to make sure nobody could come after Robb) would join their ranks.

So Robb currently has a Frey squire (and is supposed to keep him around long enough for a knighthood - obviously he’s going to wind up having to welch on that deal as well) and however many men that came along - certainly in the hundreds, if not thousands. There are going to be a lot of Talisa-hating people surrounding the happy newlyweds.

If Jaime Lannister can be saddled with the “Kingslayer” moniker for killing someone who needed killing… what on earth are the people going to do with Robb for committing the fatal error of marrying Talisa?

Yeah, Robb is dumb, but he got married in the woods, at night, with only the priest and a couple of horses in attendance. He told his mother of his intentions, but even she wasn’t there to witness it.

Seems like he’s planning on keeping the marriage under wraps for now. So, give him at least a little credit for not being a total numbskull.

I don’t think it was a temptation as such, more of a “Think, young lady, think. Why do you want the dragons back, again ? To seize the Iron Throne, right ? Well, here it is. Look at this piece of shit here. Is it worth it ? Is that worth fretting so much, and setting poor warlocks on fire ?”
So yes, what you said, but not in the form of a prophecy. Just a statement of fact: it’s not worth the trouble.

I think it was simply intended to discourage her ambition to rule Westeros, for which she would be needing to leave with her dragons. So he gave her the vision of the cold and lonely existence in a war-torn palace, then followed it up with a nice warm life staying happily ever after with Drogo and her baby.

I think you might be right. It might have been the Greyjoys, not the Boltons.

We saw him plenty more in season 1. He yelled at Robb for letting the Lannister spy go (and got dressed down for it by Robb). He may have started the “King in the North” chant, or may have just joined in, I forget. He was almost always around in the season 1 Robb’s camp scenes. I’m pretty sure he was around in those scenes early season 2, also, but I can’t say for sure. Latter season 2 we mostly saw Roose Bolton and/or Karstark tailing Robb, in the scenes where you’d usually expect Umber.

I just watched this last night. By about halfway through I was cursing the writers. People have been saying it was too fast, but I was thinking it was too slow. Very little development seemed to happen, just lots of smaller events. It felt like just an episode in the middle and not a season finale. I should have known from the season 1 finale, but nothing was really very satisfying to me. What happened at Winterfell is a “wait and see” situation, Robb is still in much the same position as he was many episodes ago, just married now. Stannis is back to square one in a fairly unexciting way. Most frustratingly there was so little of the aftermath in King’s Landing. I wanted to see some arguments, Tyrion trying to get some credit, Cersei being a bitch, Joffrey being a child and Tywin scolding them all but responding favourably to Tyrion’s actions before and during the battle. In the end I was a bit disappointed, especially by the lack of politics and “resolution but”. In short, I can’t wait for the new season but I feel a little cheated, like they’ve got me hooked waiting for something new, not by making it exciting but by giving me none of what I wanted to see.

Of course, we got some things. I was getting a bit bored of Jon but it looks like maybe things will get interesting there. It was cool to see the dragons getting a bit tougher, but that story was boring all episode right up to that last scene, and in the end the resolution was a bit quick and easy. Surely a warlock who gains increased power from being near the dragons is the last person who would underestimate them. And of course we finally get a really good look at the White Walkers and their zombies etc. Are we certain there is a difference between White Walkers and the reanimated bodies? I thought the guy on the horse could just be a kind of dessicated body. I’ll watch it again when I have time.

One difference was that the White Walkers were riding horses, gesturing, and making some noise. A zombie minion wouldn’t know what to do with a horse. The one we saw most clearly showed some purpose – he wasn’t just shambling ahead.