So apparently the series premiere kinda sucked: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/game-of-thrones/10723615/Game-of-Thrones-HBO-almost-dropped-series-after-pilot.html
Please read the OP again, and avoid all discussion of the books.
There are plenty of other female characters in the show who have had as bad or worse situations, and they find ways to figure out how to play the game better (Margaery and Arya are the first examples that come to mind - I could probably think of a double handful more). Well, I don’t know if Margaery has had a terrible life, but she’s playing the game excellently. Sansa could be talking to people and discovering what people are like around her, and making her own arrangements instead of being completely passive.
Her being 14 isn’t an excuse, either - Westeros isn’t the US where girls are kept in a protracted state of adolescence until they’re in their 20s. At 14 she could easily be expected to be a wife and mother and player of the Game.
Sansa’s led a pretty sheltered life. All she knows how to do is be the child of landed gentry. Her sister was always a tomboy, and learned swordplay from a master swordsman–with an unusual style, which gives her an edge against the unwary.
I don’t understand the shit piled on Sansa. She’s exactly like what most 14 year old girls would be if they were thrown into her situation. Arya’s had the fortune of being aided by a string of older male characters (first Yoren the Nights Watchman, then Jaqen H’ghar the assassin, now Clegane) and Margaery is a Tyrell with a great deal more talent for manipulation (and really, we can’t say that trying to marry one king after the other is evidence of her being proactive - for all we know it was her mother, a powerful woman herself, who’s the real puppeteer). I like Sansa because she and her story are exactly the opposite of most fantasy female protagonists: Realistic. To a 24-year old guy like me a character like Sansa at the start of Game of Thrones was vapid and annoying, but she’s been thrown into a real shitty situation that I don’t see ending happily for her. She’s basically fucked. And an incredibly sympathetic character to me.
So I guess I actually do understand the shit piled on her. She’s not going to be able to overcome her plight with sheer badassery like we wish people could in real life. It looks like there’ll be no fantasy escapism happy ending for her.
She’s 18. And 13 when they started filming the series.
And Maisie Williams (Arya) is turning 17 in April. I think she and Sophie both pass for the ages their characters are supposed to be.
In the show we know she’s very young because a) she just got her period, like last season and b) the other night Tyrion called her a child. The show is sure trying to give the impression that she is young.
Plus, I’m sure Sansa is well-versed in the noblewoman’s standard skillset, like needlepoint and accounting and other capabilities that are utterly useless to her now.
The girl IS 14. She is actually less than a year older than the girl who plays Arya.
So if this thread was about a high school teen drama you would constantly post baffled demands that we address the issue of why there are so many adults attending high school? (Gabrielle Carteris was 29-34 when she was a cast member of “Beverly Hills 90210.”) You can’t fight the premise.
You’re right, but may I point out that as far as I remember, no indication of age is given about any character in the show, except for Sansa’s (and Cersei’s) periods? So that’s references to the young age of the characters which are in fact bringing book lore into the discussion. As far as the show is concerned, Sansa could be, say, 15 (later menstruations in a non modern world), Dynaerys 20 and Robb 25. In fact, I precisely adopt this view. The actor looks 25, so I assume it’s a deliberate choice of the producers and that the character is supposed to be about 25.
I noted so much. But also that she looked older than the actor really is (and now, she’s 18, anyway). And again it doesn’t matter that much. I’m not saying that a 18 yo should be able to pull a Varys, simply that she seems to be exactly as clueless as she originally was, trusting anybody promising her something providing this person has a nice smile (and preferably is noble-looking and attractive) and actively distrusting anybody who doesn’t look right (Tyrion, Clegane). In fact just promise to her something cute (“we’ll be like sisters and have fun together in sunny gardens”) and apparently she’ll drop any (already flawed) plan to follow you. Tell her something realistic and non cute (“I’m an ugly Lannister and will try my best to protect you in this viper’s nest you’re stuck in”) and you’ll get only scorn.
I don’t despise her for being a clueless teen stuck between a rock of a hard place, I just don’t see her as being in any way savy at this point in the show. And by comparison, she’s by far the most clueless of the main characters, alive or dead, especially since Jon Snow recently left this competition. That doesn’t even mean that I don’t like the character.
I just can’t watch such a show. I can’t suspend disbelief in these cases. And again I dispute the fact that it is a premise. Many characters not only appear but also behave as if they were much older in the show. I believe that show Danaerys is older than 20, not 13, or 15, or whatever people state she is. Same with Robb, Jon, etc…Sansa is in fact the only one for whom we’re told directly she’s rather young.
If we’re told something directly, it’s a premise, isn’t it? Unless you posit that the characters who say it are lying for some reason?
I grant you that. Although again she could be 15. I still perceive her as older. Sue me.
In the first episode sansa tells cersei she’s 13. She definitively looked it at the time. Bran was 10. Jaime is 40. I think those are all the ages we’ve directly been told. Jon and Robb were born during Robert’s rebellion so we can infer they were 17 when the series started.
I’m not sure how much time is supposed to have passed. A year and a half?
Sheesh. This arguing about Sansa is as ridiculous as the arguing about whether Dany literally has dragon genes.
I like the fact that the story has someone like Sansa who isn’t handling things very proactively compared to Arya to Margaery. To my view, it would stretch credulity to have all the characters be competent in handling the horrible deck of cards they’ve been dealt.
I see Sansa behaving just like a normal introvert would react – by some level of withdrawal.
I just realized something last night that was a :smack: . As far as anyone knows, Sansa is now the ruler?Lady?Lord? of Winterfell. Part of the reason I forgot about it was that we all know B&R are still alive but the other reason is that except for some throwaway line by Tywin when he made Tyrion marry Sansa, no one is going around treating her as due her new-found station.
Just for fun: Game of Goats
Keep in mind that Winterfell is currently a smouldering ruin, its lands are war-torn and devastated, and from the perspective of King’s Landing the nobility of Winterfell are not just traitorous rebels, but defeated and mostly dead traitorous rebels, and you’ll see why Sansa’s inheritance isn’t much of a big deal right now.
Sansa isn’t just passive, she’s passive aggressive and that is frustrating to watch. She knows better than to behave the way she did to Tyrion and if she was married to anyone else she would be smacked in the mouth if not worse.
Plus, she’s not mourning, she’s pouting. She was as happy as can be when she was going to marry Loras even though her sister was missing, father was dead, and brother/mother were warring for the other side. Now that she’s stuck with Tyrion, she’s pulling the dead family card.
I don’t have a problem with people failing at the game. Theon is failing miserably. Gendry is introverted and just wants to be left alone. They’re handling it all better than Sansa.
I think the reason character of Sansa is so compelling is that she is so passive and so naive. She is one of the few actual innocents in the show. It was shocking when Ned, Catelyn and Robb died, but they were playing the game of thrones and doing it badly. I didn’t feel bad when they died, but Sansa is not playing the game of thrones, she is just a pawn with no power to use to better her situation.
In many ways Shae is a much more admirable character in that she tough and shrewd but I feel like something very bad is going to happen to her very soon and it doesn’t make me feel anything except bad for Tyrion. However, the idea of something bad happening to Sansa really scares me. She elicits a parental response in me, that I want her protected.
It would not suprise me if she experiences an arc like Dany in that she starts off as scared and passive and grows into fierceness but in a courtly way and not a military way.