Well, I did enjoy the brief glimpse of them making lambskin (intestine) condoms in that brothel scene.
I don’t think I’ve seen this point raised before. But wouldn’t it have been a hundred times better for them to have killed Joffrey a day after the wedding so that Margaery could have remained Queen? Also, the Tyrell family would have then had some control over the future of the ruling family of Westeros.
The people involved in the assassination are supposedly experts in the Game of Thrones. So, what am I missing? How does it make any sense at all to kill him before the marriage is consummated? Is there any reason at all to do it that way?
I’m guessing it’s a lot easier to re-marry her to Tommen if she’s still ostensibly a virgin and not a widow.
The only way for Margaery to remain in power would be to marry the next king, and she probably has a better chance at that if the marriage had not been consummated.
It’s clear that neither Cersei nor Jaime consider it rape despite the terrible job by the director, who staged the rapiest non-rape scene in history.
EDIT: I say “it’s clear” in the sense that the people actually involved with the show – the director and the actors – have stated it wasn’t rape in after-show discussion much like this thread.
They do for movies, so I see no reason they wouldn’t do the same for shows. I think I remember a rape warning for a Deadwood episode, possibly involving Jane?
Regardless of the rape-nature of the scene, there’s still the whole “we just fucked almost on top of Joffrey’s barely cold body” aspect. Which some might say is not entirely unshocking to a mother’s psyche :).
Does a dog have rape-nature ? Mu.
Watching a show and rooting for the villains to get killed is a hell of a lot less creepy than rooting for them to be raped.
I’m not sure I can entirely explain why that is. Part of it is the fact that murder by poison (or for that matter, by broadsword) is very rare, whereas every one of us probably knows multiple rape victims (whether we realize it or not). But beyond that, the bad guy dying is part of even many children’s stories – it’s something I expect people to treat as a convention of fiction. Rape isn’t like that. If someone is cheering rape on screen, it makes me wonder what their attitude towards it is in real life.
Which is exactly why he chose him. It’d send a huge message if Oberyn sided with the other judges. And speaking of Oberyn I loved the sex scene with him and Olyver (& Ellaria and the nameless whores). 
I’d pay to see that.
Was anyone else thinking “gee the Silent Sisters sure are good at cosmetics” during that scene? Joffrey’s body looked better most modern corpses a open casket funerals.
Re Daeny’s speech; that wouldn’t have been as dramatic. Plus I think that, despite everything they’ve heard about her, the Mereen authorities have had a very hard wrapping their heads around the concept that she was ignoring them and speaking to their slaves.
Bingo.
Westeros isn’t Europe there’s no reason they couldn’t have access to New World crops. Hell there’s no reason to think this planet even an equivalent of a New World (ie a continent that’s unknown to both Westeros & Essos).
Dorne is supposed to like Spain (well a Latin Wales that’s mostly desert). I think Braavos is supposed to be more like a Northern European city-state in the Hanseatic League.
That’s what that was; I thought they were making sausage.
It hasn’t really been made clear on what the mainstream rules on incest are in Westeros. Brother/sister incest is clearly condemned as a Targaryen perversion; maybe by extension that applies to in-laws? That was the case in Medieval Europe. The validity of Henry VIII’s marriage to Catherine of Aragon hinged on whether or not she consummated her marriage to his brother Arthur.
Agreed. If waiting until Margaery had safely produced (an ideally male) heir is too much of a risk it’s better if she doesn’t consummate the marriage at all.
But why would she need to marry Tommen?
Wouldn’t she be the Queen if the marriage had been consummated?
If a King and Queen are in power for a long, long time and then the King dies, do you mean to say that in Westeros the Queen is thrown out of power unless she finds some new man to marry and he becomes the King?
Seems like some very strange rules of succession to me.
My impression is that the power is attached to the King; Queen as an office has very little, if any, formal power. It’s just the King’s wife, basically. So yeah, if the King dies, his son takes the throne; presumably mom can stick around as the Queen Mum, more or less, but she’s not The Queen any more. If the King dies without a male heir, well, time to start looking for a new place to live, lady-who-used-to-be-Queen.
When Robert Baratheon died, his son Joffry became king.
You’re confusing a queen-regnant (monarch in her own right) and a queen-*consort *(monarch’s wife). Margaery would’ve been the latter, and her only power she’d have would be her influence over her husband. She’s still be “Queen Margaery” if Joffrey died after the wedding night, but she’d just be a queen-*dowager *(monarch’s widow). Cersei is also a queen-dowager, specifically a queen-*mother *(monarch’s widow & mother of the current monarch). And because her son is underage she get’s to be queen-*regent *(monarch’s widow serving as regent for underage monarch) and rule in his name until he’s of age like she technically did with Joffrey. Except of course she doesn’t really get to rule anything because her father’s bankrolling the government & army so he’s the one actually running things, and Cersei’s just for show.
And the only reason Cersei retained any power was because Joffrey was young. Margaery would have zero power as Joffrey’s widow. Tomnen is the king, Cersei the queen regent, Margaery the former queen.
I see. Thank you very much.
And thanks to Fear Itself and alphaboi867 as well.
I suppose once you break through the incest barrier, most other sexual taboos seem less significant. Seriously, that scene was just wrong on so many levels.
Those are the same rules of succession used quite commonly here on Earth.
When George VI of Great Britain died, his wife Elizabeth, Queen consort of the United Kingdom and the British Dominions, didn’t inherit his throne; it went to their daughter. The daughter became Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith…while her mother became known as Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother. But the Queen Mother was never at any point the reigning monarch; that title is passed by blood (or conquest) not marriage.
For the same reason, when Elizabeth II dies, the throne will not pass to Prince Philip, even though they have been married for 66 years.
Yeah, that’s what I thought, too. It can’t have escaped anyone’s notice that her two previous engagements ended in the death of the man (Renly, fiancee, and Joffrey, husband), though.
Now that Jamie has had a chance to release some tension, I wonder if it will occur to him the guy who cut off his hand is now in his fathers chain of command. If Brienne somehow learns that the hand chopper is hunting Stark children, she may guilt Jamie into going after him to fulfill his vow to Mrs Stark.
I was disappointed that Tywin mentioned the threat of the currently unmarried Daenerys and the need to find Tommen a wife without mentioning the obvious solution.
Tywin wants a monarch he can control. I don’t think marrying Tommen to Daenerys would give him that (even if Dany would go along with it).
Agreed. Even if Dany agreed to marry anyone and betray the memory of her Moon and Stars (which she probably won’t), even if Dany wasn’t stubborn and headstrong as a gorram mule (which she is), and even if she didn’t have WMDs that cannot be controlled by anybody else (which she does), I don’t think the half of Westeros that bled, burned and died to *finally *put down the crazy-ass Targaeryens would be ecstatic about putting one back on the throne not even a generation later. As for the other half, as well as the traditionalist peasants, they’d basically go “Righteous ! So, we’re all agreed that she’s The Queen while the Lannister is just the king, innit ?”.
Cue civil war part deux.