First of all, I have not once that any particular kind of event, whether rape or framing, should or should not be included as a category in any kind of fiction.
I have never even said that Sansa should not have been raped by Ramsey as a matter of plot.
Does that help you recontextualize that comment?
Not really. You just listed a couple of things you have not said. You did not say what you meant when you wrote the line I quoted.
So, no, you’re not going to bother giving it any more thought. Fair enough. I’ll get to your question if and when I feel like bothering.
For people who thought that the GOT writers needlessly included yet another rape, or should have handled it differently, what should have happened after the wedding? It is assumed and expected that a high born couple will have sex on the wedding night. Tyrion was exceptional in his consideration for Sansa’s feelings by refusing to do that. It has been well established that Ramsey is not that kind of person. For him to defer wedding night sex out of gentleness, or to woo Sansa would have been completely out of character. As it is he made it impersonal, unpleasant and a little weird- I would have expected some outright violence, fetish and mind-f*cking from him, but maybe he’s working up to it.
Maybe instead of showing what is a very important moment in Sansa’s (and maybe Theon’s) life, they should have instead cut from the wedding to breakfast with Roose and Walda the next morning in which they say that yes, we did have sex last night and it was lovely.
I think it’s worth questioning the dichotomy you postulate (between “enjoying” and “playing well with the audience.”) I would suspect that the division is false, and springs from the infinite fund of rationalizations with which our species is so well-supplied. This is exactly what I was trying to get at when I mentioned in post 208 of this thread:
You mention that the Red Wedding is possibly the most famous scene of the show. Even if a particular viewer would not use the word “enjoyment” about the scene, that viewer might well recommend the show to others with a comment such as ‘you won’t believe how amazing this scene was; it will blow you away’ or something of that kind.
Yes, it’s certainly possible to find something compelling–and yet to resist using the word “enjoy” about it. But that’s really just semantics. The point is: it brings viewers to the show.
I agree.
Those claiming that a laundry list of violence against secondary or tertiary Game of Thrones characters somehow “should” rank as More Upsetting than violence against primary characters, are being naïve about the way fiction works.
…if only there was a whole thread dedicated to this one topic…
anyway… Sansa’s sweater dress was pretty awesome.
I don’t think it’s “just semantics”.
I regularly watch the news. Does that mean I enjoy hearing that ISIS has beheaded more people or thousands have died in an earthquake? No. What I “enjoy”, if anything, is being up to date with what’s happening.
With a show like GOT I enjoy the fact it is like a complete world with it’s own rules; it avoids many of the common fantasy tropes and is more unpredictable as a result. I like that.
Part of that however is that sometimes very unpleasant things happen, sometimes requiring me to turn away from the screen. Indeed I know some people who have to fast forward past the particularly nasty stuff.
It would be very misleading to call that “enjoy”.
Yes, people! Quit giving examples of violence that happened to secondary and tertiary characters, like daenerys targaryen, robb stark, catlyn stark, ned stark, jaime lannister, theon greyjoy…
I know, right?
Yeah guys, stop discussing the show in the thread that’s about discussing the show!
ColdPlay Presents Game of Thrones: The Musical No spoilers and brilliant!
Even better, would be three threads! If only …
Customer: Two cock-ices please.
Man: I haven’t got cock-ices. I only got cock. Cocks!
Customer: What flavour is it?
Man: It’s a cock, innit? It’s a bloody male organ… it’s not any bloody flavour. Cock!
Customer: Do you get vaginas with it?
Man: Course you don’t get bloody vaginas with it. Cock!
Customer: How much is it?
Man: Nine copper pennies.
Customer: I’ll have two please.
Prostate on a stick!
Pretty sure “cock merchant” was a joke. Slavers can’t have senses of humor?
Makes flagpole-sitting look like child’s play.
Oh, wait…
I’d like to think LF has any interests other than his own, but frankly if the only thing standing between him being Warden of the North was having Sansa’s head on a spike, he’d do it himself in a heartbeat.