You don’t think committing treason against the crown by sleeping with the queen is a bigger sin? Add to it that it’s also adultery. And maybe incest? (They’re first cousins, which might not be considered incest in their social circle.)
The whole sand snake thing felt like it belonged in a different, much shittier show.
They were kidnapping her. If they wanted to harm or kill her they would have just stabbed her and not tried to run off with her.
I didn’t say it was the only thing he was doing, just that it’s possible that trying to be not-Jeoffrey is on his mind. Jeoffrey didn’t know what the hell he was doing either, but since he was a cruel person, he veered towards violence and killing when faced with a decision. Tommen doesn’t know what he’s doing, either, but he clearly veers away from violence, and it’s not unreasonable to think that he does it because he doesn’t want to be Jeoffrey 2.0. I know it’s speculation, but I think it gives him a bit more character than just “dumbass young king.”
They weren’t taking her to a tea party. Kidnapping is a hostile act, and they clearly wanted to harm her, just more slowly than a quick ambush killing would allow. They weren’t in it for gold, so they weren’t going to ransom her. My guess is that they were going to torment Cersei by frequently sending her pieces of Myrcella. Oberyn would have been furious at them.
Agreed to all that, oft wears hats.
And it’s “Joffrey.”
Even given all of that, he’s basically had the best (only) sex in his life and if for no other reason than that he should have gone ape shit over them arresting her. Guys would do a lot more stupid stuff with little other motivation than that!
“Guys” have a very wide range of responses to things. There’s nothing unrealistic about Tommen’s reaction.
Says the guy glossed Bone!
I agree with you of course.
The problem was, they were in the church’s stronghold and outnumbered. Add to that Tommen is soft and there you have it.
I am surprised the sparrows are so full of vinegar so quickly though. We’ve been told the Tyrells have ~100000 men under arms. No matter how strong your faith is cudgels and staves versus battle hardened soldiers and knights is a no win. If anything untoward happens to the young roses I expect Kings Landing to get another raping pdq.
Religious zealots overreaching and going too far, against their own best interests and perhaps to their mortal peril. Whodathunkit?
Tommen’s only chance (to avoid bloodshed) would have been to put his Kingsguard in front of Margaery the moment the fanatics started to approach her. The big problem, in my opinion, is that whoever starts the bloodshed will be blamed. So once they’ve wrapped her up in their arms, the Kingsguard would have to probably kill the fanatics to free her. But if they’re standing in front of her, then the fanatics have to attack first, and the Kingsguard would be seen (IMO) as protecting the King’s family. I doubt the High Sparrow would have ordered his fanatics to attacked armed/armored knights to arrest Margaery.
Not that Tommen was probably thinking this way – I’m sure he was paralyzed by fear and lack of confidence (and he looked to Cersei for guidance).
With thanks to magnusblitz, over in the other GOT thread: (SFW, no spoilers): Teenage Dornish Ninja Sand Snakes.
This is dripping with Awesome.
I gotta say, I just don’t get this opinion. “The strings are showing”. As in, the character of Sansa was maneuvered into an unlikely and contrived situation where something tragic but improbable happened to her?
I think almost exactly the opposite. As of the beginning of this season, Sansa is a young beautiful virgin who is the sole known surviving member of a powerful and much-loved noble house. She is also in the clutches of a masterful and fairly amoral but extremely ambitious political manipulator. Far and away the most likely fate for her is to be married off to someone she has never met for political gain, and, in the world of Westeros as presented to us, that is going to involve what to us seems like marital rape.
Granted, Ramsey is a particularly horrible person, but he’s also the most eligible bachelor we know about who is anywhere near the same part of the world.
I think there’s an interesting parallel here between this scene and Ned getting beheaded at the end of season 1. That seemed inevitable for several episodes, but up until the moment it happened we were all SURE it was not going to happen. Why? Because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all know as viewers of TV that main characters (who are also big name actors) don’t get killed. They have “plot armor”.
Similarly, when Sansa was grabbed by hooligans during a riot in King’s Landing a few seasons back and they almost raped her, we were pretty sure that she was going to be rescued and not raped, as in fact happened. Why, because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all know as viewers of TV that young and sympathetic main female characters don’t get raped.
And this time, up until the very last moment, I’m sure a lot of us thought that Theon was going to throw off his Reek-ness and save her, or that Brienne was going to come barging in, or that Sansa was going to pull a knife out of her sleeve. Why, because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all “know” as viewers of TV that young and sympathetic main female characters don’t get raped. But we were wrong this time, just like we were wrong about Ned Stark.
Got it, it can be a pain keeping all the names straight, but I’m trying.
On another note: I’m pretty sure this has been discussed already, but Iron Bank Revolution Loans. So the Iron Bank has loaned a lot of money to King’s Landing, and we know that they don’t have the cash to repay the loans any time soon. They also funded Stannis in the hopes of recouping their losses with the Lannisters, right? I get that Stannis is probably going to be a better financial manager than Robert, Joffrey, Cersei, et al. But how is he going to pay back the Lannisters’ debts on top of his own if the King’s Landing coffers can’t actually cover it? He’s not going to let the people starve just to pay back the loan.
Or is the idea that the Iron Bank doubts that the Lannisters will ever clear their debts (or remain in power long enough to do so), so they funded Stannis because they trust him to pay back all of his debt and some of the Lannister debt? And/or that he will actually budget money to gradually pay back the debts over time?
Probably the second. Further, the Iron Bank probably sees it as a long-term investment, presuming that at some point Westeros will be a wealthy, functional kingdom once again, and they see helping Stannis as the best way to achieve that.
I assumed it was the incestuous affair they had with each other.
If Stannis were to win, any surviving Lannisters would be stripped of their properties and land. Even at post war fire sale prices, there’d have to be a fair bit of money in that.
That’s a good point about the number and armament of Sparrows vs. the actual army of the Tyrells. I can see a conversation with Olenna and the high sparrow next week going something like this- “We will squash your little faction like a bug, and gain the gratitude of the populous for getting rid of the Westeros Taliban. Return Marjorie (and maybe Loras), arrest Cersei instead, and we will allow you to continue so long as you stay out of our way.”
Robert spent money like water and Littlefinger enabled him as master of coin. It was part of his plan to cause chaos to run up large debts with the Iron Bank. Stannis will do whatever it takes to repay the Iron Bank if it means taxing everyone in Westeros into the poorhouse. The bankers don’t think Cersei and Tommen will ever pay back the debt which is why they are backing Stannis.
It would be the Tyrells versus the Sparrows, the Lannisters and the Gold Cloaks. Now the Sparrows have valuable hostages in Margery and Loras. The best bet would be to try and starve the Lannisters into submission but that would take a while. I think that since Oleana and Littlefinger worked together before she will go to him again and he will take whoever gives him the best offer.
I agree about the hostages, Sparrows and probably the Gold Cloaks. But the Lannister troops seem to be under Ser Kevan’s hand and last we saw he seemed less than interested in backing his niece’s selfish, power-hungry plots.