I expect the rest took a look around, realized they were wearing metal armor on wooden ships (filled with barrels of highly flammable pitch) and facing opponents that were essentially airborne flamethrowers.
They took the hint.
I like the Sansa-theories in this thread and would like to subscribe to the pertinent newsletter. In fact, I like it so much that I will be superlatively pissed if it turns out Sansa whimsied her way to victory like a novice poker player trying a bluff in her third game and promptly showing her cards to everyone at the end of the round.
Her collective traumas should have made her a frankly cynical, calculating bitch by now and it’s time to let her.
As much as the Sansa story makes sense I’m still so annoyed at how stupid Jon was acting. It’s like he deliberately tried to do the dumbest thing at every opportunity. Before the twist I was pretty much on Ramsay’s side. He actually seemed to have an understanding of infantry tactics. Jon, in contrast, was a typical depiction of a Hollywood soldier. All fancy moves and no strategy. IMHO, if he keeps acting this stupid he should have died in this battle. I can’t see Sansa trusting him with her troops in the, hopefully, upcoming war against the Lannisters.
I did not want *that *justice. I have a good deal of contrarianism in me. I found myself rooting for Ramsey Bolton during the entire battle. I wished that GoT would continue with it’s undermining of the good guys win outcome that is so much of popular culture. I am also going full misogynist too. Im now rooting for every male claimant to the throne over female. Apart from Cersei; she would make a fine queen given another opportunity.
Well that was fucking fantastic, more than made up for last weeks shittery.
Figured Wun Wun was doomed for the same reason the direwolves have been dying; CGI budget. Guess it also put paid to any Northern Conspiracy talk, fuck the Umbers. Was totally expected Tormund to bite it too, which he did but not in the way I expected.
Battle was a *little *predictable what with the ‘Rohan moment’ of the Knights of the Vale appearing in the nick of time, but who cares, I was still cheering. Most importantly that villain Sue untouchable son of a bitch is now dog food. Jon beating the shit out of him was one of the most cathartic TV moments I’ve seen.
Lots about that scene that didn’t add up, even beyond her sudden acquisition of telepathic control over the two dragons who were uncontrollable last season. She was well within the range of arrows, let alone catapults, while burning the ship, but nobody attacked her, even though at least some of them might have inferred that they could be next – she hadn’t asked for surrender yet. And why did the other two dragons stay cooped up in the dungeon all this time, even during Dany’s extended absence, if they could have broken out whenever they wanted?
But who cares, it was a visually stunning scene, certainly the best scene since she bought the Unsullied, and maybe the best scene of the whole show.
It’s Ramsay* and I agree - there is 0% chance that this was anything other than a standard Hollywood “cavalry shows up at the last minute and saves the day” moment. Sansa was not hatching this brilliant scheme that relies on a long string of minute details going exactly according to plan and waiting in the wings until just the right moment with a giant army behind her hidden barely out of sight of everyone else. This is exactly the same as all the tinfoil theories about Arya - imagining there’s something much more intricate going on behind the scenes than there actually is.
It was trying to pay some kind of silly lip service to feminism but failed miserably when they’re sitting in the war room and Sansa throws a little tantrum with “I lived with Ramsay, don’t you think I have some insight?” then Jon asks, “OK, so what do we do?” And her response is “I don’t know, I don’t know anything about battles! But don’t do what he wants you to do.” Of course, the fact that he (stupidly) did do what Ramsay wanted still doesn’t mean she was planning on that all along and masterfully orchestrated everything to happen the way it did.
The dead don’t come back as white walkers, they come back as wights/zombies. We’ve seen how white walkers are made, at least twice. White walkers =/= wights.
Not me. I think that a constant parade of “the good guys lose” eventually becomes just as predictable and therefore dull as its opposite.
The one moment in the episode that I did find annoyingly cliché was actually the capture of Ramsay. He’s surrounded by archers, shooting arrows at the commander of those archers, at the end of a pitched violent battle… but no one took a shot at him. I guess so Jon could fight him one on one? But that was dumb and for me, not remotely believable. The realistic outcome - and the one that would have fit better with the style of Game of Thrones - was that Ramsay immediately becomes a pincushion. No dramatic cathartic vengeance for Sansa, no villainous speechifying, just another corpse on a battlefield.
I have to admit, this makes some sense. My explanation for why she never told Jon about Littlefinger was that she was hoping to not have to use his army because she hates him and only decided after her last conversation with Jon but this makes some sense…I don’t think Sansa is as cold as you are implying but I think she could be that pragmatic.
Other thoughts:
Sometimes the show is smarter than me…I wondered why the dragons weren’t going to town on all those ships when Tyrion explained: now they’re our ships. I was like :smack:
I just took it for granted Davos knows what happened to Shireen. Half of Stannis’ army left him because of that and people talk. I thought, how could he not know? But people discussing the show seem to think he still doesn’t know. Does he know?
RIP Wun Wun.
Enjoyed the Dany, Yara scene. Here’s to Girl Power. Here’s a question I meant to ask in a previous episode: before we saw her with the Whore in the last episode, did we know Yara was into ladies?
Tyrion does have a point though: what if each of the Seven Kingdoms decides they also want their freedom?
If they had waited on the Knights of the Vale, would there have been enough men? To either face off on the battlefield or to attack Winterfell in a siege? I’m sure odds would have been better, but I didn’t have the impression that the Vale would make up the numbers.
Yeah, I was confused by that. I would have expected him to start riding towards Ramsay in anger but then double back. And during the battle I kept thinking that they’d have some plan they’d implement, but Ramsay was the only one with the plan until the Knights of the Vale came in. Jon’s behavior made more sense for someone who had either never been in a battle before or who was overconfident about how good his troops were, but neither of those things was true here.
I had wondered about the other dragons, why they were apparently in the dungeon. Maybe they go back there to sleep or something, but I don’t know why they wouldn’t come out until Drogon flew over. But I agree, it was a well done and satisfying scene, so that doesn’t bother me too much.
I know little about battle strategy, but I’m guessing if Jon had listened to Sansa and had some clever battle strategy, it would have extended the battle and not resulted in as many losses so soon for Jon’s side, but they likely still would have been losing until the Vale came in. And it made sense for Sansa to give the advice she did, it would have been way out of character if she came up with some brilliant battle strategy, but she could tell enough that the plan was an expected one.
If you don’t think that Sansa was planning things the way she did, do you think she didn’t know that the Knights of the Vale were coming? Or she knew but just didn’t tell Jon out of petulance? Or that she knew and didn’t say anything only because of the script?
One question. Jon Snow said he was going to bury Rickon next to their father. But Ned was beheaded at King’s Landing and his head put on a pike. Would Joffrey or Tommen have allowed the body to be returned to his family?
Early in Season 2 Littlefinger brings Ned’s mortal remains to Cat as a ‘gift’ as part of an rather poorly timed attempt to woo her, he mentions it was a gesture made by Tyrion.
Before Mance Rayder united the Freefolk, the Wildlings were just a bunch of squabbling and warring tribes. And the giants were just another Wildling clan. I could see Tormund becoming known as a brave giant killer before being allied with them, and becoming friends with one.
