Game of Thrones 7.04 "The Spoils of War" 8/6/2017 [Show discussion only]

Hodor was alive in both the past and the present while the mad king has been dead for a long while. He can’t do anything anymore.

I don’t even understand what you’re implying. That the mad King can mind control dragons in the future?

Why wouldn’t Bran skip the middleman and just warg into a dragon?

So if Qyburn can build more ballistas, he could have an effective defense. On the other hand, Dany knows what she is facing now.

And why would Bran be involved or interested in flying a dragon? He’s pretty neutral. Also, the third dragon pilot is likely Jorah.

He’s referring to the possibility that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryian bastards of the Mad King. Which they aren’t.

I doubt it’s that simple. We’ve seen Bran warg Hodor and Summer, both of whom were in close physical proximity to him and receptive to his control (or in Hodor’s case, not strong enough to resist). This doesn’t suggest he can mind-link a hostile dragon that is currently on the other side of the continent, or that he can control the actions of a long dead Aerys II that he sees in a vision.

Warging is magic and controlling dragons is magic. There’s no real rules or logic behind them.

shrug He was stuck in the past when he Hodored Hodor and the same thing could happen again.

Dany deserves to lose that dragon. The first spear that missed let her know that there was an actual threat to the dragon. The battle was all but over at that point, so there was no tactical point to not withdrawing the dragon; it was high risk and no reward. It’s pure hubris that he (she?) was injured, and it’s Dany’s fault.

Except there have been plenty of rules and logic set forth within the story for warging. There’s no good reason (aside from truly shitty storytelling) to abandon them and handwave it away with “but…magic!”

Which of the rules would using the Mad King in the past to control a present dragon violate?

Proximity. As has been mentioned several times.

To kill the undead. That’s the entire point of Bran.

Proximity of who to what?

Nah - too easy. The dragons will all be dead by the time the battle against the army of the dead comes around. They’re going to have to arm the entire north (and Unsullied and Dothraki) with dragonglass to win that battle.

Bran did dream warg into Summer when he was bedridden and Summer was outside somewhere, so the range is not really known. That’s not comparable to across all of Westeros though. Maybe he got better at it.

Let me try to get all this Bran stuff clear in my head. Since his storyline bored me, I didn’t pay as strict attention as I should have. So. . . this is what I get so far.

He got all the info from the Tree God in a few seconds (where Bran “died” according to poor, misused Sister Reed), this was NOT how the information was supposed to be imparted, so Bran is spending a lot of time by the tree (which he will presumably occupy once he turns totally into Tree God) trying to sort shit out.

Can Bran see the future? What did the Tree tell him again? Was it ‘everything that was’ or did he add ‘everything that will be’? I’m thinking Bran knows only everything that ever happened and not what will happen because what will happen cannot be known since what is happening in the present can change that.
Which is why he is being very careful about what he tells to whom. He has to figure out all the implications of his every move. He did tell someone (the Reed girl? Sansa?) that he can only grasp the past in bits and pieces. This means we are all still waiting for Bran’s Big Reveal.
My speculation is that Bran’s Big Reveal is somehow going to tie the ancient stories of the Children, First Men and White Walkers and the events happening in the present all together in a bow. I original thought he’d end up being Bran the Builder by somehow forming the wall in the present by building it in the future but it looks like the White Walkers are just gonna walk around the damn wall.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch. . . was I the only one who noticed all the hints that I’m right in my assessment that Dany is going to tear down the monarchy and put some kind of Republic in its place? "She is not the queen as a birthright, she’s The Queen because we chose her."Jaime telling Bronn that once the war was over, Cersei will rule over a peaceful kingdom and Bronn pretty much laughing in his face. Jon convincing Dany not to melt the populace of King’s Landing because she’s changing the shit world everyone grew up in.

Perhaps by the end of everything there will only be a population of a few thousand non-dead people left so Westros will have to start over.

I don’t think we’re intended to believe that all Targaryens are resistant to fire (Jon’s not, for example, and Viserys certainly wasn’t), nor are all dragons particularly submissive to Targaryens. Dany’s fire resistance was a one-time thing (well, two times now, since she burnt the Dosh Kaleen), but that was more magic than genetics.

And dragons have to like their riders and have some magical bond with them in order to ride and control them, but not all Targaryens can become dragon riders and not being a Targaryen is no bar to riding them. It’s just that in Westerosi history, Targaryens were the only people who had dragons, so of course they were closely associated in people’s minds. But it’s not like an entire species has a symbiotic bond with one particular family.

In other words, there’s nothing preventing Tyrion and Jon from riding dragons, and their Targaryen ancestry (or lack thereof) doesn’t make them fireproof either. I don’t think there’s anything preventing Jorah from riding one. Maybe Grey Worm and Missandei, or Dany’s Dothraki blood riders might get the chance instead.

Tywin was The Hand but I thought that was later in their lives. Again faulty memory but I seem to remember the kids were all born at Casterly Rock. There was not even a hint of their mother hanging around Kings Landing to get impregnated. Not that it makes it impossible but if it’s true then it’s very bad storytelling.

There was a shot of a bald guy burning. It made me momentarily wonder if it was Tarly but I don’t think so. I would hope they would make it clearer when a character dies.

It was not established that it was Joffrey. What did happen was Littlefinger did claim it was his and said Tyrion won it off him in a bet. That was obviously a lie. I’m not sure if that was simply to put the Starks in conflict with the Lannisters or if he actually knew who did it.

Yes it was just bones.

I don’t think anyone mentioned this yet, but Sansa just disappears after observing Arya handle her own versus Brienne during the sparring session. We just see Littlefinger by himself at the end. One would think that Sansa would be amazed and at least acknowledge her sister’s newfound fighting skills. Could there be another Stark family rift happening?

That was suggested in one of the recaps I read; that Arya and Sansa would have a rift that could be exploited by Littlefinger. (And the recap also mentioned that each of the two had the experiences they wished for as children, except it didn’t go as planned. Sansa wanted the royal experience, while Arya wanted adventure and to learn how to fight.)