A charge into an enemy you understand and can see? I agree. Against an unknown enemy in the dark and the snow? I would like to think they’re smarter than that.
That being said, the visuals were damn near orgasmic. GoT just knows how to make shit look epic.
I suspect that you may be correct here. Sure, all the heroes survived *this *battle (as impossible as that should have been), but that doesn’t guarantee a happy ending for any of them.
Does it? Do you think they survived outside the gates of Winterfell, or were there 8k unsullied inside somehow?
Part of the problem is that I was describing this episode as the “climactic battle of the series” and people said that this wasn’t the climax, the battle with Cersei was the climax.
But a running, very well established theme of the entire show was, basically, “if you allow the politics and squabbles and fighting over power to distract you, this existential threat looming on the horizon is going to come in and extinguish all life” - it was totally clear that the NK and the army of the dead was the real threat all along, and all of the politics and infighting were a distraction from it.
But now, by defeating the NK at this stage, what they’re saying is “oh, the battle with Cersei is actually the real battle, the army of the dead was just there to kill a lot of Dany’s armies and one of her dragons so the odds were closer for the final fight” which is, quite frankly, shitting over a whole lot of thematic and narrative work they’ve done over 8 years.
F*cking EPIC episode. Was on my toes the whole time. wow
One thing i dont understand is how there could be so many survivors?! Felt like the whole lot got slaughtered. I mean where were they hiding?
And wtf was up with that Dothraki charge? Sure it was spectacur TV, but no commander in their right mind would have all their cavalary ride into something unknown.
All that said, still the most thrilling piece of TV ive ever watched.
I know you’re not in the blood porn camp, but I think lots of the noise on the interwebs is of that ilk.
Generally speaking I think you and I totally agree on the flaws. Perhaps the question is more if we’re willing to enjoy it in spite of them or if we’re not.
I’d argue that Battle of the Bastards, Hardhome, Castle Black and Fist of the First Men and a bunch of other previous battles had the exact same plot armor issues. The biggest difference is those were mostly 15-20 minute sequences with one or two close calls. This was 80+ minutes with proportionally as many close calls and triple the number of “heroes” on screen so it was way more noticeable. I’m don’t see this as a big departure from what this show is now and I give them credit for going big in spite of these flaws.
Same with the first big one, Blackwater. There were a bunch of major characters there but the only death I can think of is Davos’ son.
What many of us are all saying in many different ways: the death of Ned Stark is still paying dividends, 8 years later. We’re still on edge, thinking that any major character is expendable, despite the evidence to the contrary: that there is a significant difference between the GRRM part of the story and the current D&D part.
It’s not about the main characters surviving. I’m fine with that. It’s HOW they survive. It was the repeated, manipulative “Oh no! X just went down under a horde of the dead! He’s finished!”, only to find out that somehow the person is still alive and now somewhere else, about to be piled on by another horde - which he will also survive.
Take the Battle of the Blackwater. Tyrion didn’t die, but it wasn’t because he was heroic. He didn’t die because he was useless in battle and then struck with a blow that almost did kill him, but took him out of the fight.
If you’re going to save the main characters, do it in a way that’s believable. If Tyrion has to survive, you could use his size to have him hide in something no one would think of looking in. If Jamie is to survive, do it by having him supervise because of his one-handed nature or something like that. If Jorah has to die gallantly saving Daeneris, don’t send him charging to certain death, only to miraculously be the only riding survivor.
Another way, which would have killed two ravens with one stone, would have been to have Bran look after the people he knows, using his powers to level the playing field. Have Brienne about to go down to a horde, when suddenly something happens that Bran was controlling. Show a scene from his. Three Eyed Raven vision, hovering over the battle, seeing a known person about to fall then doing something to save him. That would have worked fine for me. We save the characters and show why Bran was important. Instead, Bran was useless and the characters were saved by plot armor. What a wasted opportunity.
I’ve seen this posted multiple times. Jorah was not the only survivor. We saw multiple Dothraki running back.
That’s why I said “The only surviving rider.” The Dothraki are superlative horsemen. Not a single one of them managed to stay on their mounts, but Ser Jorah did.
I assumed the other survivors were the ones near the rear who probably got knocked off their panicked horses and went running for safety. Jorah was at the very forefront of that huge wave of undead. How the hell does he stay on his horse?
Actually, as I’m typing that I just realized they intentionally showed Jorah slow down and allow the Dothraki to go riding past him. I’m not sure why he did that, but I guess it gives him a survival ‘out’ in that case.
By the way, when the Night’s King threw the spear at Daeneris, I was sure I heard a grunt indicating that Daeneris was hit. Did anyone else hear that? If so, I guess it was yet another little bit of manipulation to raise the tension, since she was fine.
I think she grunted to jerk her Dragon to the side to dodge it.
We’ve seen hardly any major characters, good or bad, actually die in battle or combat during the entire show. This was almost the first time we’ve seen major characters die heroically defending more important characters, and in this episode we have four: Jorah/Danaerys, Theon/Bran, Beric/Arya, and Edd/Sam. (Maybe Hodor and Benjen might count. Ygritte died in battle but was trying to kill Jon. Barriston Selmy died in a minor skirmish. The Blackfish died futilely after being betrayed.) In fact, more major characters died in this episode than any other except the season six finale, including the Sept of Baelor explosion and the killing of Walder and other Freys.
Nearly all the deaths of major characters to this point have been by treachery, murder, assassination, suicide, execution, or mercy killing.
“Jerking her dragon.” So that’s what kids are calling it these days. 
Yes, as we will see in the next episode I’m sure, there are a lot of Dothraki, Unsullied, Wildlings, Vale & Northern soldiers left alive.
Shame on the show for making it look otherwise, it’s getting them a lot of grief.
Syrio Forel died in combat saving Arya.
I would have assumed from this episode that about 95% of the Dothraki are dead (we saw a handful of survivors running back without their horses), Maybe 50% of the Unsullied (they were retreating en masse back into Winterfell, but many would have died there when the dead came over the walls), and I don’t know how many wildlings, as it wasn’t clear in the show just where they all were and what they were doing. We saw that group that Tormund, Sam, Beric and the Hound were in, but the rest is confusing).
I assumed they killed off all the Dothraki because otherwise Daeneris would have some explaining to do if she became Queen while having hordes of followers who only exist to rape and pillage. If lots of Dothraki are still alive, that leaves that problem intact.
On rewatching the cavalry sequence, I’m a little surprised the Dothraki were down with having their weapons flame up, considering what they thought about “witches” in S1
OK, I guess you can’t argue about magical things.