Or did he? (dun, dun, DUN!)
Seriously though, the last we saw of him, he was alive. Right now, he’s Schroedinger’s Swordsman.
Thoros saved the Hound I think, that was in battle. The Sand Snakes basically died in battle.
Barriston died saving Grey Worm. Jojen and Hodor died saving Bran and Meera. Don’t even get me started on the wolves.
Not a major character, and in any case we’ve never been completely sure he was dead. (Sylvio was in 3 episodes in the first season; compare this to Edd, one of the less important characters to die this episode, who was in 30 episodes covering all 8 seasons.)
i agree with Sam. It’s not that the main characters survived, it’s that I watched my muddy screen and saw Brienne, Jaime and Grey Worm die. Sort of. At least I think it was them because I really couldn’t see shit. A couple of scenes later, there they are walking around as if they weren’t just killed by wights. At least I think that’s them but I can’t be sure because, again, I can’t see shit.
As for tactics-- I’m not a military expert neither is anyone on this board or in Winterfell either, apparently. Doesn’t matter, though, does it? Even with a perfectly thought out and executed plan everyone was doomed unless the NK re-died.
The one thing that I am still very confused about is what happened in the crypt. The Starks broke out of their graves and. . .? Sansa and Tyrion hide and then. . .? Varys is in a hole with a bunch of other people because. . .? And the only reason I know Varys was in there is because he is one super white dude. Shining like a beacon in the darkness.
It’s not a magical thing necessarily. Valyrian steel is based on Damascus steel, which was a real steel type, and we no longer know exactly how it was made. And it wasn’t just about the material - it was the way in which it was folded, hammered, tempered and treated that made it special. If you melt down a Damascus steel sword and forge a new one from the melt, it won’t be a Damascus steel sword.
Ice was melted down to make Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail. It’s still Valyrian steel after being melted.
My main point is that very few significant characters have died in a major battle up until now, and we’ve seen a lot of them. No major characters died in the Battle of the Blackwater, Fist of the First Men, First Battle of Winterfell (Stannis vs. Ramsay), Battle of the Bastards, Hardhome, or Battle of the Goldroad. The only major casualty of the Battle of Castle Black was Ygritte, and the only one of the Wight Hunt was Thoros - and he died of injuries rather than being killed outright. Some characters like Stannis and Ramsay were killed after being defeated, but not in battle. This battle killed more major characters than all previous battles combined.
Ice wasn’t just melted, it was re-forged. An ordinary smith couldn’t melt it and remake it into Valyrian steel weapons. It took special knowledge to maintain its character.
Jumping in at the end of the thread with my thoughts.
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You did nothing, Jon Snow.
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Well, so far as I could tell. Throughout much of the episode I was just guessing what I was supposed to be seeing.
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What kind of nonsense battle plan was this? The thing worked because Arya suddenly appeared somewhere there was no plan for her to be.
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Seriously, no one, not even our learned friend Samwell, considered what would happen in a crypt when the enemy’s main power is raising the dead? (Not that I could really tell what was happening there.) I said that to the screen the first time they mentioned hiding in the crypt. I was fully expecting to see zombie Ned and Rickon.
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Hey, Three-Eyed Raven, do you have any powers that are of use here? Any at all?
Valyrian steel may have a real world inspiration but there is certainly some magic involved. When you stick a sword through someone’s chest in the real world, they don’t phone a swordsmith to do an authenticity check to see if it is genuine Damascus steel before falling over and dying. Damascus steel or not, it tends to be lethal.
In GOT, we have to believe that Mr. NK only has an adverse reaction to 100% genuine Valyrian steel. In other words, there is magic involved.
I seriously don’t know what you’re on about here. It’s both show and book canon that you can’t just melt down Valyrian Steel and reuse it. If you don’t like it call HBO or GRRM.
Me, too (I will read the entire thread later).
The ‘no plan whatsover for dealing with a supernatural enemy except to do the exact same stuff we’d do with a normal enemy army’ and the ‘OMG the showrunners really did go with No One Had A Clue That A Crypt Was A Bad Place To Hide, Even Though They Knew Their Enemy Could Raise the Dead’ elements of the screenplay were massively annoying. Then add in separate characters having a firm hold of the Stupid Ball as the only means the writers could get any big emotional effects… and I think we can be fairly sure that this episode will not be in contention for a writing Emmy.
But the biggest “wow” of the night was that Winter Isn’t Coming Anymore.
This was the hook for the entire series. Winter Is Coming. A supernatural enemy—that could be seen as a metaphor for anything from disease to technology-so-advanced-it-seems-like-magic—was defeated through the most mundane means possible. Stab the main guy and it’s all over. Winter is defeated!
The opportunities to let the show explore the themes of how a less-advanced society copes with a more powerful society, or of how squabbling warlords manage to come together to overcome a common enemy, or of how humans are capable of outside-the-box thinking to deal with a brand new sort of threat—all discarded.
So now it becomes clear that Winter Is Coming was never what this show is about.
It looks more and more as though all this show is about is putting uppity women in their place. That’s it. That’s all it is.
How dull.
:dubious:
Well, what else is left? Winter’s gone, dude. It’s shorts weather, now.
I’ve seen some very brightened clips of the retreat and it is clear that there are some horsed Dothraki riding back with Jorah AND many Unsullied in the back of the phalanx coming through the gates. All the ones up front most likely didn’t make it, though.
Winter still came, in the literal sense. Remember that in this world, at irregular intervals, it arrives and stays for an indefinite period. Meanwhile, the White Walkers haven’t been seen in a thousand years or more.
‘Putting uppity women in their place’? Whaa?
But inside the gates it turned into as much of a slaughter as outside. At the end all we saw standing was the main characters.
Winter? What winter? Did you notice that they showed the breath of people more often in the crypt - underground, closed, and filled with fire - than outdoors? And those people walked around with no head covering and often without gloves?
I just watched a second time, this time on my iPad. Everything was much easier to see and I was able to follow what was going on much better. My rating of this episode went up quite a bit as a result.