Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 [Show discussion]

I’m thinking “Ride of the Valkyries”

If Gendry, First of His Name, becomes King, it would oddly enough continue the Baratheon dynasty, kinda sorta unbroken: Robert/Joffrey/Tommen/Cersei (by marriage)/Gendry.

Brienne always seemed to intrigue Jaime, and there were definitely sparks when they were traveling together and when they had that tete-a-tete in the baths.

If Arya ices Cersei at Dany’s behest, or to Dany’s benefit, then Dany could still be the beautiful woman of the prophecy.

Absolute monarchies often leave one with shitty options.

Yeah, that for me was one of the saddest moments of the entire series. Ghost has saved Jon’s life, gone north of the Wall with him, and been with him through thick and thin, and is standing there wounded and whining, and Jon… just walks on by? Terrible. It wouldn’t have killed them to have a 30-second scene where Jon says an affectionate, deeply-moved farewell and hands him off to Tormund.

Preach it!

I didn’t at the time. On rewatch I can see this interpretation. To what purpose? Prevent drunk murderers from getting angry and stabby?

Ain’t no critic quite as foul-mouthed as an Australian critic.

Nudity is not sex. That’s another aspect of the sickness. Nor was there in fact any nudity, i.e. naughty bits. Arya showed less than a person wearing a bathing suit. Which college age girls have been known to do without disgusting anybody.

The fakeness of onscreen violence is a silly talking point. Television sex is just as fake, but none of the crew who grow hysterical over screen sex pardons it for that.

For that matter, television death is equally fake, yet episode 3 started with a lengthy farewell to people who didn’t die at all. Why bother if it’s all fake? Could it be, possibly, that fakeness isn’t the issue at all?

The way Bronn shot an arrow at the wall and then instantly loaded another arrow into his crossbow, like within half a second…that’s not how crossbows work, right? At least not the old-fashioned crossbows shown in the show, right? Don’t they have to be cranked to build up the spring tension necessary to fire the bolt?

There are several methods for spanning crossbows, but none that are anywhere near as fast as Bronn’s. Windlass crossbows such as you’re referring to are the slowest, but such methods are only required on the heaviest draw bows. Lighter bows, and we should assume this is one such, were spanned using a variety of methods, but all of which provide some sort of mechanical advantage, since even light crossbows had draw weights of at least a few hundred pounds. Demonstration of a few methods. If you look through the youtube channel, you’ll find videos of windlass crossbows as well, and crannequins as well, which are super cool but rather mechanically advanced for the GoT setting.

Have really come to appreciate the overall music this season. Always digged it but now have really studied up on it

Sickness? That’s a strange term to use.

There was nudity. I’m pretty sure I saw boobs. I don’t think I’ve seen boobs at a beach before.

I’m not sure if you know this, but violence in TV and movies is fake. But a girl, who some saw, incorrectly or not, as a little girl, baring her breasts, was kind of shocking. Nobody in the show actually got killed. But she actually was nude.

I agree with Sam Stone that of all the very fair criticisms that can be made about the show’s last few episodes or even the last couple seasons, “Dany’s turn to the dark side is sudden, random, and comes out of nowhere” is not one of them. The way they have slowly been setting this up is actually a feather in their cap IMO.

It really is messed up that they didn’t have Jon go say goodbye to Ghost. I guess it’s because they didn’t want to spend the money on the CGI or other VFX that would be required (any time Ghost isn’t actually touching anyone, it’s a lot easier to just increase his size relative to what any real dog or wolf could be).

BTW, what was the point of putting Ghost into battle at all? Without having dragonglass or Valyrian steel weapons, what use is he?

Nice! I will pass that on. :slight_smile: Unlike me, he has read all the books and is deeply knowledgeable about the lore (as well as fantasy lore more broadly).

Yup, there it is (at 17:40 for me, as an HBO GO subscriber). Wow. That is a serious fuckup. People have speculated that they slipped it in there purposefully, as a joke…but that seems like a kind of weak joke, so IDK. OTOH, it also seems hard to imagine that Emilia Clarke would somehow fail to notice a takout coffee cup sitting pretty much in her line of vision. I guess maybe it’s one of those mundane objects that can become psychologically invisible? So weird.

How do we know that they acted at Sansa’s order??

And by the way, reading an interview, I found out the following : when Sansa is talking to the Hound, you can see Podrik in the background picking up two women, including the one that the hound just rejected.

Seemingly, it would have killed their budget. Apparently, having the direwolves appear along with characters is vastly more complex and costly, and that’s the reason why the scene you wanted wasn’t shot.

No, she wasn’t. You could see her back and a bit of the side of her breasts. Perhaps the upper part of her bottom, and I’m not even sure of that. That’s not “nudity”.

And nudity isn’t shocking anyway. Most certainly less than skinning people alive or burning little girls.

Also, I’ve seen boobs (not just a bit of a side of one) both on the beach and in movies depicting minors. But since prudishness is gaining ground every year, presumably it has become much less common.

Revisiting the question of why they’re hiding episode titles, could it be just because the episode title “The Last Stark” would be so ridiculously misleading? It certainly doesn’t give away that the war with the dead was already resolved, as I hypothesized last week. Maybe it’s just the final episode title that inspired the secrecy.

No matter when you decide to start measuring, Cersei in power is nothing but misery for the people. First she empowers and unleashes religious fanatics on the populace, then nukes a huge amount of the power structure of the capital.

If you wait to start counting until Tommen’s death, last season was full of like 4 different wars. There was the Lannister siege on Highgarden, the Lannister capitulation of Casterly Rock; the entirety of Westeros was marching back and forth from coast to coast in all-out war. (All the “show teleportation” translates into a Bataan death march for the troops.)

Not to digest the food; to incinerate the undigestible waste so you can just burp smoke instead of shitting out pointy ribcages. (Ouch!)

I don’t know about succession, but she’s pretty clearly squatting on the throne as a Lannister. At the gate to King’s Landing, the flags flying over the battlement are the Lannister lion sigil, as are the banners hanging down the wall.

I think it’s a clue that the final episode will be resolved by the local police bursting in and breaking the Fourth Wall, “Holy Grail”-style.

One bolt went right through his head, he’s not coming back from that unless he has Deadpool levels of healing.

I don’t consider it shocking either. I also don’t consider a character in a show killing a mythical beast shocking either, since it’s not real.

It just seems strange to me for someone to label a person who WAS kind of shocked at the nudity as having a “sickness”

An interesting level of analysis for epidemiology nerds… (No spoilers. Any individual subject information is de-identified.)
https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s40621-018-0174-7?fbclid=IwAR220xVIYIKVtdDNQqRz5nebfoNVyOKO2dKjStRoRrF9kU-Hg-1JCN7wsqg

I’m pretty sure Bronn is wielding the crossbow that Joffrey had made, that Tyrion used to kill Tywin. It uses a lever that looks a bit like a tuning fork to rotate 180 degrees along the top to draw the string. It was totally against canon to show Bronn speed loading it in that way.