Game of Thrones 8.06 "The Iron Throne" 5/19/2019 Show Discussion

Ouch.

(Or according to Google Translate, “au” in Dutch.)

Btw, re: Dorne’s place in the Seven Kingdoms. It was never formally a part of the Seven Kingdoms until much later (almost 200 years) after Aegon’s conquest). Aegon I claimed it (as did his successors) but never conquered it and was independent until a marriage linked the two.

As in medieval Europe, the vow of celibacy was honored largely in the breach, it’s true. Grand Maester Pycelle, Kingsguards Jaime Lannister and Meryn Trant, the High Septon caught in Littlefinger’s brothel, and the members of the Night’s Watch who frequented the brothel in Mole’s Town all routinely violated their vows. But that doesn’t mean someone like Jon wouldn’t feel bound by them.

I really would have liked Bran to be revealed (only to the audience) to be an evil schemer that abused his powers. If he can see the future, that is a reasonable conclusion to make.

However, you’d still have to answer why he’s evil, and that has not been established, not nearly to the degree of say, Dany. A hard knock life doesn’t cut it. Corruption by magic and/or The Night King would have to be shown or have exposition, which in the very last episode would have been clunky.

I think that it was deliberate so that the viewers could imagine the end they prefered to Jon’s story.

For me, he’s leaving the Night Watch.

They emphatized the closing of this gate by having the screen go black. I think it’s intended to be meaningful.

He didn’t quit the night watch. His watch was ended. He died.

Also the night watch in effect needed much more support to fight the dead. Arguably he was still doing the Lord Commanders job at the Battle of Winterfell, and before that by getting a together a realistic defense to beat the dead which involved MUCH more people and potential dragons.

In the series, Sam continually pointed out that the vow was not of celibacy, but of marriage and having children.

“I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.”

So as long as you don’t get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you’re good.

Even then, you could argue that the ban is on recognized children.

So have as many Snows as you want.

That’s what it felt like to me. But really, he could do anything he wants.

He went to the Watch again because it was a compromise with Grey Worm which enabled a peaceful resolution to a tense situation. That’s the Grey Worm who has now left the continent along with the sizable elite army which was making the situation tense.

It’s the responsibility of the lord of the North to police desertion from the Night’s Watch. But the North is now independent. Does it still have an obligation to King’s Landing to perform this task? It might have some self interest in doing so in the general case - the Night’s Watch consisting largely of rapists, thieves, murderers and others ne’erdowells, plus a smattering of ambitious third sons who never learned to play nicely. (In fact, really, how long before Sansa is reviewing this arrangement?). But in the specific case, if Jon wandered back to Winterfell, is Sansa going to execute him as deserter? Would word reach Grey Worm and would he really invade Westeros for Jon? I’m thinking no, doubtful and…maybe but probably not.

Certainly if he heads North with the freefolk, there is no way he suffers any repercussions. Sansa isn’t chasing him up there, nor is Grey Worm. He has sworn an oath, but oaths can be flexible. If he spends most of his time on long ranging expeditions conducting liaison with Tormund and perhaps also any… less beardy redheads that might happen by, plus the occasional diplomatic excursion to Winterfell, he could technically be keeping his oath while living pretty much his best life.

Next season, Arya will eventually arrive at the wall, fresh from her adventures. She’ll convince John to help fill her ship with settlers and sail back to the amazing new continent she’s discovered.

I’ve heard there are some very open-minded bears north of the wall.

The whole arrangement is much older than King’s Landing.
The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ? :stuck_out_tongue:

True. However, Sam has revealed that Gilly is pregnant with his own child. But it’s not clear exactly what vow the maesters take. It won’t be identical to that of the Night’s Watch. (In any case, presumably King Bran has freed Sam of his Night’s Watch vow anyway, which the ruler can do. Stannis offered to do it for Jon.)

It’s true that everyone will turn a blind eye to the fact that the Grand Maester has a family tucked away somewhere in Kings Landing, just as they did to Pycelle’s romps with prostitutes.

Could be. With Catholic priests, the vow was so you would devote all your attention to the Church, rather than to supporting a family. With both the Night’s Watch and the Maesters, it’s presumably so you won’t be inclined to get involved in political or dynastic struggles.

Bran the Builder, a Stark, built the Wall and established the Watch in the first place thousands of years ago. As I said before, there’s no reason to suppose that the North won’t continue to participate in and support the Night’s Watch as a multinational force.

My head-canon says that after a few years of letting everything settle down, Bran is visited by a Red priestess, and lo, he can walk and fuck! A little spinal injury ought to be nothing for those who can raise the dead (that particular god willing.) Then one day he gets a dove (not a raven)-gram from Arya, who has discovered an entirely new continent of people she can steal the faces of. Sansa’s rule of the North is wise and long, and when you mention Jon Snow to anybody, they get a puzzled expression on their face and say “Who?” Meanwhile, north of the Wall, Ghost has found a dire wolf female and raises a family, but not before ripping Jon’s balls off for leaving him without so much as a pat on the head when he went south. Tormund fucks another bear.

You mean, like giving someone an honorary PhD?

Universities do that, not politicians.

Honorary PhDs aren’t expected to actually use the degree. An MD (or Archmaestership) would be.

The John Hughes ending.

The King could certainly try to pressure the Citadel to make someone a maester or appoint them Grand Maester, but what would be the point? They’re not going to know any more. And Sam can sit on the Small Council whether he is Grand Maester or not; the King can create new positions if he wishes. The Citadel appoints the Grand Maester for King’s Landing, and he automatically has a seat on the Small Council (he’s the only member ex officio, and not appointed by the King) but he doesn’t have to be invited to meetings. Pycelle was disinvited to attend Small Council meetings at one point.

Speaking of the Small Council, it is unclear why Bran needs a Master of Whisperers.