Hmm. How to keep in line with the “books don’t exist” rule?
Keep watching.
This thread is not supposed to refer to the books, but I don’t see how to answer your question any other way, so if you really need to know, I suggest you post your question in the open spoiler thread.
However, I think it’s safe to speculate that HBO would not have spent millions of dollars on this series if the plot didn’t “get moving” in the first season, as there would probably be no second season if it didn’t.
I may have missed it in previous posts, but can anyone tell me the name of Jon Arryn’s trusted man, the ‘paragon’ who went with him to check out Gendry at the smith’s? I’ve watched the episode twice now and his name isn’t mentioned <that I could hear>. It’s driving me nuts; I feel I should know this person. (yes, I’ve read the books, and nothing’s coming clearer for that; it has been a little while, though)
Obviously, I threw the wrong name in there; I meant EDDARD STARK’s man, not Arryn’s. Arryn’s the dead guy, duh. :smack: Well, one of them, anyhoo.
Watching the scenes for the third time; still no name that I can catch. All I can think of is a cleaned-up Bronn, but I don’t see how that’d be possible without some major re-writes.
The fact that he’d battled alongside Jaime should tell me something but ffs I can’t figure it out.
Jory Cassel.
Ooh, thank you! I even looked through IMDB’s scene-by-scene description of the episode, and they just call him ‘Ned’s man’. Thank you!
Sorry to bump this zombie (or white walker…hah!) thread, but I just watched this episode last night so I thought I’d come here to see the commentary.
I agree with friedo completely, although I’m engrossed and not giving up. The whole Greyjoy/hostage plot thread came out of nowhere. Who the hell’s that guy? And everybody wears heavy coats and scuzzy beards.
But I go to the HBO Viewer’s Guide…it’s been extremely helpful in sorting things out.
So back to the episode: what good is armor that doesn’t protect your throat? Wouldn’t that be kind of like a bullet-proof vest that covers everything except your heart?
And – this is directed to GRRM – Ser? Meister? Seriously? :rolleyes: In terms of establishing a unique sub-creation, this isn’t quite on the level of Tolkien inventing 3 new languages.
To be fair, though, not every fantasy writer has to be up to Tolkien’s standards.
Granted; this attempt though could best be described as “why bother?”
I have enough faith in Martin and his world building abilities to think that he chose those intentionally so that they would be very similar to English. He wants, I believe, to have the opposite effect of Tolkein’s language creating. Rather than showing a world that is different, he is looking to show one that is almost but, not quite, identical to human history.
He has a track record of high quality writing going back 20+ years before A Game of Thrones was first published. I say he gets the benefit of the doubt.
I’ll accept his credentials, and certainly grant him benefit of the doubt. I’m not so sure it has the desired affect, though – I think it just draws attention to itself in a somewhat silly way. (now, having winters that happen irregularly and last more than 3 months is world-building that means something. I’d be curious how he explains that, meteorologicaly/astronomically).
It’s kind of like one of those time travel stories where something changes in the past and it makes a subtle difference in the present. In this case, what changed is a few vowels have shifted.
That came off more defensive than I intended. I have been spending a lot of time defending the books in real life recently and it spilled into that post a bit.
I’m afraid I must disagree with the idea that the number of fictional languages included in the worldbuilding stage is a proper measuring stick for a fantasy writers quality.
Tolkien loved language and myth, and so his world is rich in language and myth. Martin loves political infighting and people (and sex), so his world is rich in political infighting and details on how people live and interact. (also sex)
You’re not alone with the Ser thing, though. I never noticed it myself, but I’ve heard ‘What the fuck is a Ser?!’ more than once.
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Why is it always Tolkien vs. Every Other Fantasy Writer? Tolkien didn’t seem like the domineering type, I’m fairly sure he could deal with the fact that, after a sufficient number of decades, some people might like other writers as much as, or even better than him.
Did you mean to address that comment to JSC1953 instead of me?
Both, actually. Or neither, if you like.
I was objecting to the idea that ‘less focus on language’ means ‘Not up to the standards of,’ even if one is only talking about worldbuilding. Different writers, different times, different interests, different focuses.
I quoted you because the phrase was yours, not because you had been necessarily been making that argument. Which is probably sloppy message-board etiquette, for which I apologize.
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Give me a break. It’s Friday night.
I’ll respond, anyway. 
Tolkien is kinda the gold standard for fantasy writers. It’s certainly understandable and acceptable that a different writer would have a different set of priorities in how he defines his fantasy world. No problem with that. The fact that Tolkien spent 40 years building his sub-creation’s back story before setting pen to paper for LOTR shows in the wealth of detail he can provide. I think that’s a bar that’s too high for any writer to get over.
That said, Martin (and I know nothing about him or his books – just going on what I read here and what I see on TV) has done a wonderful job building his world.
But “Ser” as a Martin-world version of “Sir” just clangs off the ear (or eye, actually). It just seems like he’s saying “See what I did there? Things are really different here, huh?” and noooo…it’s not. It just seemed lazy.
(and Ser as short for “serrah” would make sense if there was such a word as “serrah”. Can’t find it in my dictionary. Maybe it makes sense in Martin-world.
It’s pronounced ‘Sir-Rah!’ White-suited, mint-julep-eded Southern Gentlemen use it when offended, shortly before challenging people to a duel.
Never mind. It wouldn’t have been a very good joke verbally, but doesn’t work at all via text.
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Ok, they’re not all winners. Gotta fall back on the b-material from time to time.