For me, going the warg route in the show would be a complete cop out, they’ve not shown anything that I can recall to indicate Jon has that power. It would IMO come across as such a deux ex machina.
I think with the show bringing Melisandre back to Castle Black, they will crib the Lady Stoneheart concept and apply it to Jon instead.
It seems to me that in the books, all Stark kids except Sansa have this ability. All of them have these vivid dreams of being direwolves. Even Arya, from another continent. Only Bran actively seeks it, but all seem to have the potential.
Also, nobody else saw these still pictures, supposedly leaked, showing Jon lying on the ground dead and then the exact same shot, except that you see only the white of his eyes (as if warging)? Could be a manipulated pictures, or a deliberate deception by the show makers (who would then be the source of the “leak”). But it could also be a genuine shot that will only be shown at the beginning of next season.
But this just shows that everyone in GoT has a room temp IQ. Even Jon. Ok, Jon knows half the Nights watch hates his guts. He *knows *there are Free Folks that still want him dead. He has seen horrible undead monsters come to kill the Commander. Yet, he doesnt take his Dire wolf everywhere he goes. Damn, I wouldn’t go to the privy without Ghost.
But if you’re using the term that way it just loses all meaning…
“Hey, that movie is dubbed into English, we know that’s a crowd-pleasing choice”
“That movie is subtitled… haven’t you heard the hardcore fans talk about how great it is that it’s subtitled instead of dubbed? What a crowd-pleasing choice”
If the obvious make-everyone-happy plot development and the difficult shocking starling plot development are BOTH “crowd-pleasing” then it just doesn’t mean anything.
He knows his decision wasn’t popular with some of the men, but I don’t think he was truly expecting to be assassinated. Another problem with having a good heart.
Absolutely, in the books almost all the Stark kids seem to have the warg ability to one extent or another, which is interesting genetically speaking when you consider Jon is in all likelihood not Ned’s natural son.
But, with the exception of Bran, it’s not something the TV show seems to have emulated, which is why I think it would be a cop out for them to suddenly decide oh hey, by the way Jon’s a warg. Surprise!
Rampant Jon Snow speculation: Is Jon Snow Actually Dead On 'Game Of Thrones'? Here Are The Theories | HuffPost Entertainment
Pycelle is also book-dead, not show-dead.
I am not entirely sure Myrcella’s dead. It seems too dumb. Maybe too dumb for this show. I think Trys might have an antidote and make her drink it and save her. I don’t think she’s going to see the end of book 7, but I won’t fall over from shock if she’s in season 6.
Stannis probably isn’t dead. After what we saw Arya do to Trant, why give us a discretion shot? But maybe they thought people would be too stupid to notice or they have a valid reason, like they’re not sure what they’re going to do with him yet and want to keep options open. Like The Hound.
As for Jon… I said to a friend today that I don’t know which would make me angrier: Jon being gone for good or if they were deliberately trolling us.
I know he’s not book dead. I can’t imagine GRRM writing that much of a shaggy dog story with him. To me, he’s got to be the true hero of the whole story, a secret prince with special abilities learning wisdom and strength with his magical animal friend. The real mysteries are HOW he comes back, IF he comes back normal, and what he will do when he awakens. So while I wouldn’t put it past D&D to decide that they wanted to go in another direction, it would seem like killing Harry Potter in the fifth movie and letting Ron and/or Hermione defeat Voldemort.
I wonder if maybe too he’ll take a Bran-year-off and come back S7. If that means no Olly next year, well, that might be worth it.
I didn’t like the episode, but I didn’t like it slightly less than most of the rest of the season. Cersei’s walk of shame was really done well. I am surprised we didn’t see her remember the rest of Maegy’s prophecies. It seemed like a good time to bring that back up. Why have our first and only flashback to only give us PART of the story?
This season was a mess. Plotholes, inconsistencies, extra gratuitous violence, more plotholes, characterization all over the place, nonsense, and contradictions. And that’s judging by the show’s own history and timeline, not comparing it to the books at all. When you spend most of the time going “Why/how did s/he do that?” instead of “Wow! I can’t believe s/he did that!” there is a big problem. I can’t lose myself in the story because I spend the whole time going “That was so fucking stupid.” It’s really not “That didn’t happen in the books.” It’s just dumb. And I’m happy for those people who don’t see it or it doesn’t bother them, but it makes me rage, that such a short time ago this was my favorite show maybe ever and now it’s a burden. I used to be dying for E10 because I wanted to see what happened and this year I just wanted it to be over for 40ish more weeks.
I think you have a really generous definition of potholes.
To my knowledge all the major deaths have been lifted right from the books*. I’ve read some comparisons between books and show and they are (so far) relatively minor. I assume Jon/Stannis/Theon/Sansa are similar.
Sure, Likely he wasnt expecting his own men to turn on him. That just leaves the White Walkers and a couple thousand wildings.
Any chance Jon Snow warged into Ghost as he dies? We were pointedly shown Ghost being around the place a few weeks ago, when he’d been absent for a long while.
'Cause I’m expecting a Robin Hobb style scene, swapping Dolorous Edd and Mellisandre for Burrich and Shade.
Surely that would spoil the adaptation of THE Assassin books HBO are moving onto after GoT wraps up…
:dubious:
OB
**Fair Rarity’s ** final paragraph sums up my feelings pretty eloquently. The series has diven off a cliff, and unless there are some drastic changes in the writing team the next season will be even more of an incoherent mess. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the show gets cancelled after season 6…
First book spoiler in the show thread 
(in fact readers have been discussing the survival of Shireen, especially after it was depicted in the show because the book setting is different).
In fact, the show was quite faithful to the books during the first 4 seasons, on the overall. But it departed from them a lot during this season. Entire story arcs are in one and not in the other (both ways). Most of the main characters are in situations that range from significantly dissimilar to completely different (like being in totally different places doing totally different things). Thinking quickly, I’d say only a handful of those main characters are in pretty similar situations in both medium. Some of the events shown on screen are materially impossible based on the books. And in fact, Shoreen’s fate that you mention to criticize Martin is one of these cases .
It might be that Shoreen will die later in the books, as you said, possibly in a similarly horrid way, possibly for a somewhat similar reason. It might be that she’ll die slipping in the shower but some other sympathetic character not appearing in the show will be burned to death by someone for some reason at some future point. So, it might be that the show makers are anticipating on future events and conflating characters while staying true to the spirit of what GRR Martin wrote. But it might also be that they’re using liberaly creative license. We don’t even know how much they know about future events. We don’t even know how much Martin himself knows about future events, in fact.
So, at this point, you can’t really ascribe to GRR Martin any particular event you see onscreen anymore. And of course, the show makers could change things in the other direction if they so wished. For instance, Shoreen might have died this way in the books, and the showmakers decide that they would soften or remove this part. They have to own their choices.
Note that I’m not a great fan of Martin trying to defend his case at any cost here. I’ve a lot of issues with his writing style, and I hold the show to be significantly superior to the books, in fact.
This was a season which was in most parts awful.
Another major “EH?” in this episode. Where Ghost? Off sniffing a plant or something? His loyal direwolf would not be howling constantly at the threat of danger?
It sounds like another D&D “Let’s hurry this along, we don’t have time” (except you do, you’ve wasted a bunch on pointless stuff).
Like the Stannis thing. Am I the only one thinking “Well, they’ve managed to basically kill an army of 6,000 with 20 dudes”. Right. Sure. Not a single guard on the supplies. It’s just soooo easy, you know, marching into enemy territory, in middle of a storm, to just, well, all the guards just get confused not a single one raises an alarm before burning everything. O…K.
I know Jamie got caught in a similar situation, however, that was with an overconfident army, who had not posted scouts and attacked by another army.
Cerseii deciding to Arm the faith, she was tricked in the book, she’s a fucking moron in the series.
And what with people calling Cersei “The Queen”. She’s not been the queen for nearly 90% of the series, since old bobby baratheon died. Sure, she can exclaim it, because she still thinks she’s the queen, but the crowd in the walk of shame?
All largely a bit shit in this season…
And do the released chapters count in this thread? Some of them do answer questions.
[Spoiler]Meryn Trant? Dead in the books now.
Pink Letter? False. Stannis is alive, with Theon captured by him, contrary to what the letter says.
[/Spoiler]
This is a weird nitpick. She was the queen for 15 years and she is still queen mother. There’s nothing off about common people still thinking of her as being [a] queen and referring to her as such.
Nah… the ratings will still be high for violence, shock, and tits. I mean if True Blood didn’t managed to get itself canceled early (talk about a complete and utter narrative mess), GoT won’t.