I also think this is where the incongruity of the show and books rears its head. In the books, of course, Cersei is ruling Westeros as Queen, even if her son is actually King. In the show, Tommen is older and is expressing a desire to rule (somewhat) rather than playing with Ser Pounce.
As stated, Shireen’s death may (and most likely will) be entirely different in the other medium. There is also a chance it’ll happen “off screen”, so not really a major plot twist, which is what you were accusing Martin of doing (killing as a plot twist).
What happens to Jon in the show happens in the books (though for a much better reasons, IMO).
But the rest are still alive and kicking in the books. So no death/plot twists there.
That’s hilarious, the show is more popular now than its ever been. I’m fairly sure it is HBOs most popular show ever. IMO that was the best season yet, and the ratings seem to back me up.
Something just occurred to me: Martin uses a number of viewpoint characters, but it’s a limited number. So;
Has any viewpoint character died in the books so far?
How about in the show?
That could be a big clue about where he’s going with the story.
Ned and Cat were both viewpoint characters, Selmy also but he’s only dead in the show. The kingsguard who was in love with Arienne was also a viewpoint character dead in the books.
Um, Ned?
Edit: Ninja’d by DigitalC
Speaking of, we saw the Red Wedding through Cat’s eyes and it was even more heartbreaking than in the show. I’m sad that they didn’t find a way of including “Not my hair, Ned loves my hair” into that scene.
I believe that was the only view point character killed during their own view point chapter.
Well Jon as well… at least first death ;).
GoT season 5 finale had 8.11 million viewers, an all time high for the series. The overall ratings have gone up every season, albeit by a much smaller amount this last one. So I find it quite unlikely there could be enough falloff next season to cause cancellation.
Okay…so much for that idea, then. :smack:
Hell of a time for me to forget about that one.
Well Ned’s was shown simultaneously from about four different viewpoints, one right after the other, starting with Ned’s himself.
Also, who was the kid who tried to released the dragons in Mereen? I forget. Anyway, he was a viewpoint character who died.
Also, to comment on someone else, I was expecting and really shocked that Lady Stoneheart didn’t show up at the end of Season 3. I kept waiting for it but it never happened. And then I figured “ok, it’s going to be a nice reveal in the middle of Season 4.” That didn’t happen either.
It’s not going to happen. I’ve resigned myself to it. Which is disappointing because:
A) the reveal would have been awesome
B) It was already set up with the brotherhood and Arya earlier in the season
C) The lack of LSH signals that she doesn’t play a huge role in the books either, which is disappointing. I would have thought her role was to eliminate every single one of the Freys from the face of Westeros. But maybe I’m wrong there.
Quentyn Martell - whose existence was to show how far out Doran Martell had planned out his revenge.
Well, even if that does happen in the books, the show may feel it isn’t important enough to show that the Freys get theirs.
Martin has mentioned that he wouldn’t have included LS if he didn’t think she was important, so I’m sure she’s going to end up doing something.
My minor quibble with the TV version of this storyline is that Jon is so clearly in the right. It makes absolutely no sense to oppose his plans with the Wildlings after what they saw at Hardhome. There were multiple Night’s Watch soldiers who witnessed what happened, and you’d think they’d be at Castle Black vehemently telling everyone what they saw and that Jon’s plan was right.
At least in the book there were no eyewitnesses present, just a letter after the fact (I think). And the decision to attack the Boltons was the one that finally led to the mutiny. That made the mutiny much more reasonable.
Except she isn’t actually the queen. Hasn’t been for as far as I can, two or three years according to the show. Not the queen. Other woman Queen. Not married to king. Factual.
Bit weird to call it a nitpick.
Well, killed. But still dead?
Right. And if in some fashion the show is claiming that she is factually the queen, that would be a mistake. What the show is claiming and you are complaining about (I guess) is that people in casual conversation REFER to her as “the queen”. Which is entirely plausible, and even in fact likely given the ages and personalities of the people involved. Certainly it’s something that she herself would have overtly or covertly encouraged, and until recently her encouragements had quite a bit of weight behind them.
There is a distinction about “being killed” and “being dead”.
I think the rules are the prologue, the viewpoint character dies.
I’m not sure about the epilogue chapter. I think that could hold true too.
Until Red Wedding no Viewpoint character got killed in their own viewpoint.
So viewpoint characters did die, but if they died in their own viewpoint, they tended to live.
Given that Lady Stoneheart came back, the rules can be justified still.
Jons attack in the show is much more clear. The books it is a bit more ambiguous. Some even argue that it could have been “not Jon” and something weird is going on with glamours that chapter.
However, he loses conciousness after third or fourth stab. In the TV show, it looks like he has actually died, eyes open, staring off into death…
He could be taking Lady Stonehearts place in being rezzed by melisandr, who at least is at Castle Black. Or warg into Ghost, who’s been a shit protector in recent times…
I, too, expected Lady Stoneheart to be revealed in the last minute or two of the season finale. That would’ve been sweet.
Both Cersei and Margaery are, in both books and show, queens right now. Cersei is the queen regent (books) while Margaery is queen consort (both books and show). Cersei also retains the title of queen as the unremarried widow of a king.