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I haven’t read the books. Is Dany and her relationship with the dragons done better there? I feel like it’s done poorly in the show, but maybe I’m an idiot. It just seems completely random. Sometimes they want to bite her head off, sometimes they’re lovey dovey, all for no rhyme or reason. In a conventional narrative I’d expect Dany’s character development or her confidence in herself as a woman or leader would lead to increased bonding with the dragons so you’d have a dual track progression but it doesn’t seem to follow any logic at all.
One second Drogon is running away from home and having teenage angst issues, the next he comes back to save everyone, then he doesn’t want to follow orders and let’s his “mom” wander off and get captured. She has two of the dragons locked in the dungeon, which I wouldn’t think would be conducive to trust and bonding. Am I missing something? I realize they’re supposed to be wild animals and there aren’t any Valyrian trainers to consult, no manuals, no Pokemon center to earn a dragon badge, but it just seems really unsatisfying to me. The best I could say is it seems to mirror Dany’s chaotic character. She can’t seem to decide what she wants to be.
Drogon didn’t come to save anyone. He smelled blood.
Probably a bit better in the books – no CGI budget to worry about, so there are many more scenes in which she interacts with and nurtures the dragons. But once they grow large enough to be dangerous, she has the same very limited (at best!) control over them in the books as in the show.
A few questions:
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When is Season 6 scheduled to air next year?
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Has the TV series caught up to the books?
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Do Benioff and Weiss know the general plotlines and the endings of the upcoming Martin books?
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Pretty much
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They’ve always said they have, but as this season shows they hardly take GRRM’s story as holy writ.
My take on “have they caught up to the books” is “Maybe. Mostly.” There are casting leaks that suggest some characters that should have been around this season will be around next season. If they are doing Books 4&5 stuff or doing unpublished book stuff or completely original stuff, we don’t know. There were a few big events that did not happen and do not look like they are going to happen off-screen between seasons.
But since so much of this season was completely original, it’s impossible to know for sure.
There’s not really that much in the books to show her bonding with the dragons either after they’ve reached adulthood (there was more bonding when she could have them perched on her shoulders, both in the show and books). I just watched Jurassic World and started thinking about this - I think those relationships are depicted in a very appropriate way. Not to besmirch the epic grandeur of a series like GoT by comparing it to a mediocre summer blockbuster, but the relationship between Chris Pratt and the raptors is what reminded me of Dany and her dragons. And in the real world, kind of like the relationships a tamer of lions or tigers or other dangerous animals would have with his charges. The animals do love/respect/trust the tamer/owner more than the average human, but they are still wild animals that can’t really be tamed in the way a household dog or cat is tamed. And they occasionally lash out, and can still be very dangerous to their owners/tamers even if the human has been with them since birth.
If they were simple thralls to her that obeyed her every command and never seemed to pose any danger, then people would be complaining of it being cheesy and non-realistic (if we could imagine dragons being real in the first place). The way it is, it’s perfect. It’s clear that they recognize Dany and are prone to defending her, but they are still wild, dangerous creatures that one cannot know the mind of and may act in unpredictable ways with the right provocation.
That’s the way it is portrayed in the books 100%. There was, of course, no Sons of the Harpy attack at the coliseum there. Drogon just showed up in the middle of things and started making trouble. But in the show, it was definitely portrayed as a rescue for Dany.
I’m troubled by how much the show and books are diverging, especially since the first few seasons were quite faithful to the books with the exception of things like some physical character descriptions and the fact that everyone in the books is like 12 years old.
I’m really curious how they explain the Sons of the Harpy killing Hizdahr zo Loraq especially, since the books made some pretty heavy implications about his involvement with them. Going so far as to say “If he is not the Harpy, he is surely the Harpy’s first-born son”. He never even got to marry Dany in the show, as he did in the books, and the plot point where he seemingly tried to kill her by encouraging her to eat the poisoned locusts was also left out of the show, I believe. Then of course there was the whole kerfuffle with Ser Grandfather kidnapping Hizdahr and Quentyn Martell loosing Viserion and Rhaegal on the city. GRRM promises the battle of Meereen will be one of the first chapters in The Winds of Winter, so I guess they’re gonna cut straight to that in season 6 as well. Although we also missed out on a lot of prep for that such as the whole storyline of Victarion sailing the iron fleet over to Slaver’s Bay. But I don’t think they can ignore that, they just didn’t have time to shoehorn it into season 5. At least I’m hoping. Here’s to the ironborn!
Eh. Victarion was kind of interesting, but I wouldn’t shed many tears if they cut him from the show.
Thing is they’d have to really start diverging massively from the book plotline. Everything in the books has been leading up to this huge battle for Meereen. Who knows though, maybe they will, as they also haven’t shown any siege by the Yunkai’i either (although that could still very well be coming - they started setting up prior to Dany absconding from the city but it didn’t really get going until she was already gone in the books, which is where we’re at in the show now).
Also, will they cut little Aegon too? We don’t know where that’s going to end up but it seems pretty important in the books.
“The king shits, and the hand wipes.” :eek:
Indeed, the Meereenese Knot was supposed to lead exactly to the Battle of Meereen. But the show hasn’t really dealt with all the background. I guess they could do a quick, oh, the Slavers took control of Yunkai and hired some sellsword companies to take Meereen back as Tyrion and Grey Wind prepare the defense of the city. But also they appear to be casting some Iron Islanders, so maybe Victarion will sail for Meereen while all that is happening (of course that boat ride will seem absurdly short unless they drag it out, but I’m sure they’ll drag out getting Dany back to Meereen as well).
It appears that Aegon is not in the show. I guess they could still have him by randomly having a massive army attack the Stormlands without all the backstory.
Do the books give any indication about how Lyanna felt about Robert. How did he feel about her before her kidnapping hurt his pride?
I don’t think we’re told anything about that, really. He was quite smitten with her, but I don’t remember anything to suggest that the feeling was mutual. And “kidnapping” is of course in the eye of the beholder - she may have gone with Rhaegar willingly.
I think it is certainly hinted strongly in the books that Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly. A lot of book readers have theorized an upcoming appearance for Howland Reed, the father of Meera and Jojen, who is the only surviving person who was at the battle at the Tower of Joy with Ned Stark when he found Lyanna, and for him to be the one to shed light on Jon Snow’s true parentage. I think just as good a bet is for a return of Benjen Stark to inform Jon. At the start of Robert’s rebellion, Benjen would have been at Winterfell when Lyanna left or was abducted by Rhaegar. The books and show make it unclear where exactly Lyanna was when she was “abducted”, but if she was at Winterfell, it is possible that Benjen may have knowledge of whether she might have gone willingly. Further, Ned may have confided in his little brother when he came back with the baby Jon Snow that the boy was really Lyanna’s son.
This is all speculation of course, but i think, especially on the show, it is more likely that Jon learns his true parentage from Benjen. Once he is resurrected (of course he will be), it will be a lot more poetic if soon after he finds out he is really Jon Targaryen so the whole rebirth motif as a different person is complete.
I don’t think Benjen is coming back. That little wooden “Traitor” cross is the best we’re gonna get.
In the books, I suspected he might be Coldhands (the mysterious elk-riding not-too-sinister wight ranger that travels with Bran for a while), but apparently this is not the case. There’s some copies of original drafts out there where GRRM’s editor thought the same thing and wrote it in the margins as a comment, asking if Coldhands was Benjen Stark. He replied with an unequivocal “NO”.
Here is something that has bugged me since the first season.
We know Varys and Illirio are in cahoots, Arya overhears them plotting.
Illirio has Dany and bro living with him, sets up the marriage deal AND gives Dany three mysterious petrified dragon eggs. Dany hatches them.
Now Varys has been revealed as a Dany supporter, he brings Tyrion to Illirio’s house.
So the whole thing was a round about plot to get Dany to hatch dragon eggs?!
Why exactly didn’t they give her the eggs in the mansion and say ok hatch em?
What were they plotting underground way back if not the hatching?
I guess I just assumed that really was Mance who died because I can’t even remember seeing Rattleshirt in the show. And I think Jane Poole would have shown up in Winterfell by now if that was going to be part of the show plot.
Rattleshirt was in the Qorin parts and more recently seen beaten to death by Tormund.
Jeyne Poole was last seen in (I think) S1E1 and obviously not coming back because what would be the point?