Game of Thrones (season 5) BOOK SPOILERS!! TV SPOILERS!

Varys and Illyrio* have been trying to restore a Targaryen to the throne. Illyrio helped little Aegon as well in the books, as you’ll recall.

Regarding the eggs, I’m not sure he ever really believed they would hatch, or he would have probably just kept them for himself. He just gave them to her as a decorative wedding gift. But whether he expected them to hatch or not, that’s besides the point. The point is they are trying to bring the Targaryen dynasty back to Westeros.

I’m not sure who you’re responding to here but yeah, I agree that the little sorcery trick with Mance didn’t happen on the show. But Rattleshirt was seen recently, as someone mentioned, in the Hardhome episode (which means he also wasn’t even at Castle Black at the time of Mance’s burning).

Likewise Jeyne Pool isn’t relevant in the show since they replaced her with Sansa as the one who marries Ramsay. Which frankly makes more sense and is a better narrative decision than the way it happens in the books, since it keeps her relevant and she has an obvious history with Reek/Theon (it rhymes with Freon). GRRM likes to add dozens of new characters every single chapter it seems, and it just gets to be too many people to care about any of them.

Oh, something fishy, no doubt…

I’m a huge (fan?admirer?) of the crackpot Merling CT :slight_smile:

Agreed. Or at the very least, the eggs were a symbolic tie to the Dragonlord Targaryens. Who knows, depending on how many petrified (or not) dragon eggs there remain in the world, that, by itself, may have convinced some of the smallfolk to declare for Dany.

Though I think at the time, Illyrio and Varys were scheming for Viserys and Dany’s role was to get an army they could use for that claim. And, yes, you have Aegon as a 3rd option after Viserys and Dany. They covered their bases well. I also have to think that they were party to the Dornish plans to marry, first, Arianne to Viserys and then, Quentyn to Dany. Maybe now, they’ll go back to Plan A, but slightly alter it - Arianne to Aegon.

In one of the Winds of Winter chapters (which I will spoiler just because):

Arianne is traveling to Storm’s End to meet Aegon. After knowing her father’s original plans, she may be attempting to resurrect them with this new Targaryen

On a tangent, I will say I still don’t really get those who claim well Aegon obviously wasn’t that important if the show wrote him out. I mean he may not contend for the Iron Throne in the end in that case, but if he’s invading the Stormlands with the Golden Company, he obviously is playing a major role in the books - after all, it’s not like the folks up in King’s Landing (now just really Cersei in charge) are going to ignore it - and overreacting to that may open up things elsewhere (perhaps allow Dany a much easier landing in Westeros than she otherwise would have received).

That’s why I don’t think Aegon’s going to be written out - the only part of his story that’s definitively written out is him meeting Tyrion in Essos, which is not a big deal as that really only served to establish his existence. Chronologically, their landing in Westeros happens just before/around the time of Cersei’s walk of shame, and she finds out about it shortly afterwards (along with the murders of Kevan Lannister and Pycelle, but that part is complicated by the fact that it was done by Varys, who we’ve already seen on the other side of the world in Meereen). We ended the show right at that point so it could very well be planned as a season 6 thing. That’s what I’d bet on. The murders may happen too, if Varys sends assassins.

Why exactly though?

So they knew Dany would make a good ruler and were putting her through tests or something?
I had a out there theory that all the non-white walker stuff was some kind of scam Essoes was running on Westeros. Almost all the schemers we see are from Essoes.

A red witch from there comes and befriends Stannis and kills Renly

We are reminded about once a season Varys is from there, Illyrio too. Then at one point they point out Littlefinger’s father is from Essoes. The iron bank is from Essoes.

I wondered if they were all working together in some kind of covert takeover of power in the Westeroes.

In the books they were working to put Aegon on the throne because he’s Illyrio’s son.

In the show they’re working to put Dany on the throne because they cut Aegon.

The eggs were petrified fossils, they had zero reason to believe they would ever hatch.

Err, no… what on Earth gave you that idea? Aegon is a Targaryen. He’s the son of Rhaegar (Daenerys’ brother, making him her nephew) and Elia Martell (The Mountain raped her, he murdered her, he killed her children!). Illyrio has no blood ties to the Targaryens:

[QUOTE=A Wiki of Ice and Fire]
Apparently, Illyrio’s interest in the Targaryens is purely financial, expecting to receive great riches in gratitude once a Targaryen regains power. He also inflames Viserys’ ambitions by telling him of Westerosi people awaiting the return of their rightful king, of men drinking toasts to his health and women sewing dragon banners in secret.

Illyrio brokered the arranged marriage between Daenerys Targaryen and Khal Drogo to use Drogo’s powerful khalasar as an invasion force. He also worked with Varys, King Robert’s spymaster, to engineer a strategic period of weakness for the Targaryens’ invasion. He gifted Daenerys at her wedding with three petrified dragon eggs, not expecting that Daenerys would hatch them. Ironically, the dragons were worth more than anything Illyrio could hope to receive from Daenerys.
[/QUOTE]

There is a theory that ‘Aegon’ (from ADWD) is actually a Blackfyre (an exiled Targaryen branch from bastards of Aegon IV that he legitimized, starting a series of wars), and Varys might be as well. I’m somewhat doubtful. I think Aegon is probably not legitimate, and probably just a random baby that they found somewhere. Jon Connington may or may not know about it.

Aegon/Young Griff is the son of Illyrio and a female Blackfyre. They’re just pretending he is the son of Rhaegar. Varys is Illyrio’s best friend and since he can’t have children of his own, he is helping Illyrio’s son gain the throne.

Source? That’s ridiculous speculation… I’ve read the books, and finished them quite recently so it’s fresh in my mind, and they certainly don’t so much as hint at that. Much less state it outright. He has the trademark silver hair and purple eyes (which he had to hide during the time in exile by dying his hair blue, also making his eyes look bluer, but Tyrion was keen enough to notice). In fact I was reading through the Wiki that has quite a bit of info on him, and the only thing that seems to raise any doubt about his identity is this:

[QUOTE=A Wiki of Ice and Fire]
There is a hint that Tyrion may have harboured doubts as to whether or not Aegon is actually Aegon Targaryen. When Young Griff loses their game of cyvasse after being tricked by Tyrion he gets angry and kicks over the cyvasse board. He immediately commands Tyrion to pick up the pieces. As Tyrion is about to do so he thinks to himself:

“ He may well be a Targaryen after all. ”
[/QUOTE]

So if your theory is based on the fact that Tyrion thought to himself that maybe he wasn’t really Aegon, that’s as weak as it gets. Otherwise I’d like to see your evidence.

It’s fine to make wild speculations, but not fine to start spouting that speculation as if it were canon.

This is just speculation.

In essence it’s all speculation. However, it should be acknowledged that what we know is that Aegon is being put forth as the son of Rheagar and Elia, and was switched out when the corpse of a dead baby boy was required.

There is speculation that this is not the case and that Aegon is a Blackfyre, and that may be the reason the Golden Company broke its contract with Myr (I think) because the GC was started by Bittersteel, one of Aegon IV’s great bastards, after the Blackfyre rebellion.

There is also speculation that Aegon is Illyrio’s son because Illyrio had child’s clothing that fit Tyrion. And then, of course, there is speculation that Aegon is Illyrio’s son who married a Blackfyre women - partially based on the saying that there are no male Blackfyres after the death of… (I forget the name).

Anyways, they’d have to have convinced Jon Connington of it somehow, I’d imagine. Why would he back a fake Aegon over Viserys? or Dany?

Sorry Rigamarole, I didn’t mean to give you a heart attack. Yes it is my speculation that Aegon/Young Griff is the spawn of Illyrio and a female Blackfyre. It is not ridiculous unsubstantiated speculation, I’m not even the first person in this thread to suggest Aegon is Illyrio’s son. ISidddiqui has already covered some of the reasons why many share my speculation, but my reasons for this theory are the following:

It’s specifically noted that all the male Blackfyres were exterminated, implying that there were some female Blackfyres who survived.

Illyrio had a wife who had Targaryen features. This could explain Aegon’s features.

Illyrio seems to have deep personal affection for Aegon; he is saddened when he doesn’t have the opportunity see him before they depart and he includes Aegon’s favorite sweets in the supplies he gives them.

The Golden Company were Blackfyre loyalists. They break a contract for the first time ever to support Aegon. Illyrio says that this is because some contracts are written in blood.

I always thought the baby switching story was suspicious. Why would Varys value one baby over another, when there is no real way to prove the baby’s regal parentage?

Once again, yes, this is just speculation. It’s all speculation. It is entirely possible that Aegon is not Rhaegar’s son, nor Illyrio’s son, nor a Blackfyre. Targaryen features are uncommon but not unique. Aurane Waters, the dude who steals Cersei’s navy, has Targaryen features.

Some links where Aegon’s parentage is discussed:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/156odh/spoilers_all_complete_analysis_of_the_blackfyre/

Aurane Waters comes from the Velaryons, who were descended from old Valyria. Hence silver-gold hair comes from that line (though he has green eyes, not purple). So they aren’t unique, but the blood would have to come from a very few number of lines. However, I’m not sure if in the Ice and Fire Universe if the proper “color” comes from the male line - remember Robert’s bastard children (and after all, Robert’s and Stannis’s grandmother was a Targaryen with blond hair herself)? So I guess it depends on how GRRM wants to work the genetics here ;).

When? In the books, his great grandfather is, from Braavos. But House Baelish is an established house, if not a rich or powerful one.

It’s only been several decades since the eggs were laid, so unless physics are super-wonky in ASOIAF, they’re not fossils.

R+L=J is just speculation too, but you’d be nuts to dismiss it.

Rhaegar and Lyanna birthed Jon Snow, Jojen is dead, and Aegon is an impostor. There are dozens and dozens of subtle hints as to why. Go read the westeros.org forums or reddit for the discussion. I don’t think recapping dozens of pages here is worthwhile.

Since those specific eggs were laid or since the last eggs were laid?

I thought it was more like hundreds of years, though I don’t recall it specified. IIRC the last dragons died out more than a hundred years before the series starts.