Folks, let’s try not to derail the thread on this topic. I have asked the mods to edit the title to include [TV Show Spoilers] instead of [Spoilers] to make it clear that it may contain spoilers from the TV Show and not from the books.
Nice, and he could have said that. He didn’t, and in fact implied the opposite as his OP (as Johnny LA sez)implies a request for knowledge that has not been revealed in the TV series.
And why did you click on the thread anyway? Here’s the title: **Game of thrones: Who the fuck am I supposed to be rooting for? [Spoilers] **
Where does it say TV show in the title? No, the title doesn’t even imply it’s about the TV show, and it warns you there are SPOILERS. Yet you entered the thread anyway- thus you deserve anything you read. If you didn’t want to be spoiled, why did you even click on the thread?
You wuz warned. Now you’re just trying to drum up fault for your own actions.
Dropped.
Oh I agree it’s JUSTIFIED, but it’s also not something that a canonically heroic character would do, and it’s easy to imagine it being a first step on a very dark road.
I don’t think Varys’s motives are clear. He certainly likes to present himself as someone who is purely interested in the good of the kingdom, but remember back in season 1 he was seen to be conspiring with Magister Illyrio (the guy who arranged Dany’s marriage to Khal Drogo), apparently to help get the Targaryens back in charge. If you think about how much blood and destruction would certainly accompany a Targaryen re-conquest, it’s hard to fit that in with his stated goals. On the other hand, he doesn’t seem particularly hungry for personal power or wealth or fame.
So lying about one incident, as a teenager who has just been introduced to the prince she thinks she is going to marry and live happily ever after with, is a sufficient crime that it deserves to be punished by having her family slaughtered, being held captive for years, being toyed with and abused by Joffrey, and then being forcibly married to a dwarf who is the son/uncle/brother of her captors? That’s pretty harsh.
Would she kill an innocent person, or let an innocent person come to harm, to further her goals?
He’s a fascinating and entertaining character, and he’s not a sadist, and he might even be a good choice for person-you’d-want-to-have-in-charge-of-your-kingdom, but he’s unquestionably ruthless and evil.
Dr Deth, given your long-held and very public position on spoilers with this material, I find your behavior disingenuous in the extreme.
I’ll edit the thread title, but everyone please be aware that this is a show where a lot of very avid fans of the TV show have not read the books, and please do not post material from the books that has not aired yet in the TV show.
If anyone wants to discuss spoilers vs. non-spoilers, take it to ATMB – it’s off-topic in this thread.
twickster, Cafe Society moderator
Hmm i think you changed the title to the opposite of what it was supposed to be.
It’s implied that Viserys inherited the psychopathic tendencies of Aerys, and more generally the insanity that plagued the Targaryen line, and that he would have been one of the worst kings Westeros had ever seen. It’s also clear that he terrorized Daenerys all her young life, and had originally planned to rape her before her wedding. And, oh yea, he committed a crime worthy of death under Dothraki law.
She could probably have gotten her husband to spare his life, but I think it’s clear that by choosing not to, she did the realm a big favour.
I’m rooting for Daenerys, though I have some sympathies for Tyrion and even Stannis/Melisandre too.
But basically, just root for anyone except the Greyjoys and their Iron Islanders. Or the Boltons, I guess. Those two families make a point of being bloodthirsty barbarians.
Yara doesn’t seem to be particularly bloodthirsty.
I’m not rooting for Daenerys, just because I find that story line dull. Necessary, but dull.
Well, keep in mind that in her day job, she’s a pirate. And not a comical hollywood talk-like-a-pirate-day pirate but the kind that kills and steals and pillages.
I suppose it depends on what you think a “hero” is. I think that in larger society—and it seems for the OP as well—a “hero” is someone not only with all the good qualities we admire, but also someone who in the end triumphs. Ned Stark did the opposite of that. Brienne might have some admirable qualities, but she has accomplished very little in terms of doing good.
Furthermore, I think it’s important to note another thing that Martin is showing us, that even those people we think are the best guys, if we really looked at them with cold eyes, we would find that we don’t admire all their values.
A lot of people think that Ned Stark is a fool for doggedly sticking to his honor in the face of information that should have persuaded him to be more cunning. The Starks also have values that I would consider reprehensible, like their views on the death penalty.
Brienne herself is a bit of a dunderhead.
In my view, failing, particularly so early in the story, violates most commonly held notions of what it takes to be a hero.
Wanting to stab someone and actually doing it are very different things.
No doubt. She’s a reaver and a pillager, and she’s killed a lot of people. But it’s just part of the job. Theon was cruel to prove his manliness. Dear Old Dad was a prick. The sailors were bloodthirsty, but they weren’t in charge. Yara seems to have some scruples. At least she cares about her little brother, whom nobody else likes.
Some of these questions aren’t answerable yet from the point of the TV show. Perhaps it’s a limitation of the medium. But I don’t think that there are any significant characters that turn out to be one-dimensional cartoons, not even Joffrey or Ramsey.
Okay, how’s that? (And this, boys and girls, is why the CS mods effin’ hate GOT season.)
I’m not the op but i believe he meant for the thread to only have TV spoilers.
Yeah, but there are book spoilers here now, so if someone was okay with TV spoilers ( having watched all the seasons ) but not book spoilers, they’d be very unhappy reading my or DrDeth’s posts.
On reflection I’d be inclined to say delete both of them, since they are largely tangential to the larger topic anyway.
The OP said he’d finished season 3. TV show, obviously not the books. He said, “as a viewer,” not a “reader,” again, obviously not the books. He asked if there was anyone left that he was supposed to root for (potentially inviting spoilers from the books, I’ll grant) but didn’t ask “what happens to so-and-so.” If someone REALLY wanted spoilers from the books, there are WIKI pages out there aplenty. I think it’s pretty clear that it’s about the show.
Sure. Ok by me.
At this point (after book five) I’m rooting for the zombies. And maybe for Martin to get hit by a Buick, if it means he finishes the series. Then again, look what that got us for the Dark Tower.
All of the characters have their good sides and their bad sides; some are just a lot more bad than others. That said, Brienne of Tarth is my heroine - honorable, determined, skilled in battle, and tragically out of step with her society.