You were warned in the Thread Title. I can’t ask the question without referencing the info. So, no box.
At the Grey Havens Sam or Frodo or somebody notices that Gandalf has the third Elven Ring. It is suggested that this was not a recent acquisition as stated that it was noticed “for the first time that Gandalf openly wore” the third ring (suggests to me that prior to this he had been covertly in possesion of it).
So where and when did he get it?
Did I miss out on any foreshadowing that suggests that in the end we may learn that Gandalf has it?
Gandalf was given the third ring when he came to middle earth. Cirdan the Shipwright originally had it. I don’t remember the exact quote but Cirdan said something along the lines of “you’ll need this more than I will.”
I am under the impression that many of the Elves knew who possessed the rings, or at least had a hunch.
I don’t really recall Tolkien giving away that Gandalf had the third ring.
I’d have to re-read the whole thing ([sarcasm] and boy would this girl hate that[/sarcasm]) before I could tell you if you missed out on any of the foreshadowing you mention. I either don’t recall it or also missed out on it, if it was there.
However, IIRC the appendix(es) to my edition - Gandalf recieved the Ring of Fire (third ring) during (towards the end of) the ‘Second Age’ of Middle Earth, by Círdan, one of the Eldar who held that race’s three rings (along with Gil-galad and Galadriel).
Gil-galad gave his to Elrond before he died. Círdan (who ‘saw’ much of what Gandalf’s future would hold) and gave up his ring to him. (When I get my book, I’ll post you the text of what Círdan says to Gandalf when he hands it over - unless else someone gets here first.)
He also says that he will await Gandalf, until the last ships sail, at the edge of the Grey Havens.
My memory is telling me thats all correct - but someone who knows for sure or has a copy of the book might do better.
I’m home now! And the relevant part is in Appendix B to LOTR.
Although I don’t know why I thought ‘towards the end of the Second Age’ - It’s totally off! Ignore me! I really should have payed attention to what I was typing - I KNOW that’s wrong!
Anyway, it’s actually just sometime DURING the Third Age. :smack:
Lilacs summed it up pretty well with saying that Círdan said ‘you’ll need this more than I do’ - but since I now have the text right here - the exact quote is:
‘Take this, Master’ he said, ‘for your labours it will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, me heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you.’
Gandalf flat-out says that he has it. You (the reader) don’t know what he’s talking about on your first pass through the book/movie, but here’s the relevant passage:
One might ask "Who or what or where is ‘Anor’–but I can’t answer that one.
An additional note relevant to the ‘openly’ wearing business. You can also read into this the idea that only people with great ‘perception’ are able to tell that Ring Bearers are in fact ‘wearing’. The telling clue comes during the ‘Mirror of Galadriel’ scene (in the book) wherein you get the distinct sense that Frodo’s ability to see has been enhanced by his contact with the ring and he sees quite clearly that Galadriel is wearing her Elven ring. From Sam’s viewpoint however it’s only something he has a vague notion of…and ends up rationalising instead that he is seeing a ‘star’ through her finger and admits as much when Galadriel asks him outright if he saw it.
Tolkien was big on the idea that some people can see ‘clearly’ or ‘far’ and that if you aren’t one of those people the world can be full of shadows and deception.
Sorry, but I don’t think what he says there applies to his elven ring. Olorin (Gandalf) serves Eru, who has/is the secret fire. Melkor went into the void looking for the secret fire, but found it not, because it was with Eru.
Anor is the sun.
AFAIAC, Gandalf was not identified as the bearer of the elven ring until the last chapter of ROTK.
He’s definitely using the Ring (or similar powers of his own) in the seige of Minas Tirith, and when he heals Theoden, and in many other places, but there’s no way to know at the time that that’s what he’s doing. For that matter, most of his magic is fire-related, and one may speculate that that’s influenced by the Ring of Fire, as well.
As for perception, I think that if a Ringbearer wishes for the Ring to be unseen, that nobody other than another Ringbearer can see it. For that matter, it’s probably only visible to a bearer of one of the Great Rings. Consider that Saruman, second greatest expert on Ringlore in Middle Earth, wielder of a (lesser) ring of his own, and among the wisest and “seeingest” folks in the world, had Gandalf in his power while Gandalf was wearing his Ring, and didn’t attempt to take it from him. The only way I can make sense of that is that Saruman didn’t know that Gandalf had a Ring.
If Gandalf was a wearer of one of the Great Rings shouldn’t he have been able to recognize the One Ring without 77 years of research? (60yrs w/Bilbo, 17yrs w/Frodo)
I had wondered that too, I thought perhaps one of the Eldar had said premonition, and passed the information on to Gandalf. But I’m only theorizing, I don’t know.
