I’m building a new house and my builder is trying to talk me into using an electric heat pump rather than a gas furnace. He says that the new heat pumps put out warm air comparable to gas furnaces, are cheaper to operate and that the future cost of gas heat is going to be prohibitive. Anybody know what the straight scoop on this is? I did a Google search but really didn’t find much.
I don’t have any hard data but my neighbor uses gas and I have a 1 ton (pretty small) heat pump unit. It puts out very warm air - except when the outside temp drops below freezing. Then I have to keep it running almost constantly and back it up with the fireplace. In South Carolina it’s got to be even more efficient. Especially if you can put in a geothermal heat pump.
I have a “Gas-Pack” with A/C cooling and gas heating. My daughters split system operates as Heat Pump down to about 32 deg and gas heat if weater is colder.
I played around with a calculator from my utility company, and for my zip code near San Francisco, a heat pump would be about ten bucks less per year to run, compared to gas. My winters are probably similar to yours - it never actually gets cold enough for anything to freeze here beyond a little frost on the windshield maybe three times per year.
Check with your local utility - they probably have a similar calculator.
I just finished reading an article on CNN’s website and I’m beginning to think a heat pump may not be such a bad idea.
spingears I’ve never heard of a system like this, but it sounds like it may be the way to go. Do you, by any chance, know who makes it?
(I may actually click on one of the google adds – I wonder if this is good or bad?)
I don’t know what your utility company would be, but I just read in the paper that SCE&G is going to be hiking the price of gas this winter. I’ve got gas-pac myself, and just moved into a house with 77-year-old single pane windows, so I’m shopping for thick drapes, personally.
There are also ground source direct heat pumps which don’t use a glycol solution and an intercooler but instead pump refrigerant through a series of ground loops which can be radially bored from one location and bedded in protective grout. The refrigerant pumped through these loops effectively makes the earth a convector or evaporator, depending on the season.
Heat pumps can be very good in your part of the country, but I beleive that they don’t last as long as furnaces.
Heat pumps absorb heat from the air around the evaporator coil and reject it at the condenser coil. A reversing valve changes the function of the indoor coil and the outdoor coil to do this. Heat pumps heat well until the ambient outdoor temperature gets below 32 deg F. I have a gas furnace (propane). If you live where there is natural gas get a gas pack, they heat much better. If you get a heat pump, have the defrost timer replaced frequently, when they fail and they will, most people do not realize it until they get a $900 light bill. :eek: Resistance heat is very expensive, the electric company will not be sympathetic.
I bought a heater that is fueled by shelled corn from a guy in Lamar. I’m hoping not to buy much propane this year. 
I spent some time a few years ago installing and repairing heat pumps. I wouldn’t have one unless it was geo-thermal, but that requires that you install a well and have a place for the water to run off.
Don’t get too wrapped up in the idea that since natural gas prices are high & going up you should go with electric heat to save money. What do you think they burn to make electricity? A LOT of generating capacity is gas-fired, and more in growing areas of the country compared to older more stagnant areas.
So many consumers will find higher electric bills as well as higher natural gas bills this winter.
A furnace purchase is a decision with both immediate and 15-20 year implications. Without detailed knowledge of the relative costs of new units, their lifespan, their likely maintenance burden over time, and the prices of the various fuels and interest rates over the life of the furnace, any attempt to decide which is better economically is pure guesswork, unless it’s truly an open-and shut case.
And if it was open-and-shut, you’d find the losing furnace type disappear completely from the market within a year at most. Since that hasn’t happened yet, we can reasonably assume the case isn’t open-and-shut.
Not in the Carolinas. I’m relatively certain that most electricity in SC is provided by the two major power producers in NC — Duke and Progress Energy. Their generation capacity is roughly evenly split between coal and nuclear. Progress Energy is giving very, very serious thought to putting in an application to build another nuclear plant. However, coal prices for the entire east coast have gone up significantly this past year. The NC utilities commission has just granted rate increases for electricity this year, though they are much smaller than the ones for gas. I’m not sure what SC has done, but I’m sure they put in similar requests.
Heat pumps are effective and economical for producing heating. One thing that you will notice that is different between them and gas furnaces is the discharge temperature. A heat pump might have a discharge temp that is slightly below your body temperature; a gas furnace will have a discharge temp that is warmer than you. Thus, you want to make sure your diffusers are located in spots where you won’t have air blowing directly on you if you have a heat pump. Even though the air is warm enough to heat the room, when you have air below your body temp being blown over you, you end up uncomfortable.
I’ve had a heat pump in the past; when we moved, our new home had a gas furnace. I can’t tell a difference either way regarding comfort.
Well, SCE&G’s website doesn’t have much to say about where my power comes from, but I know some of it at least comes from the Lake Murray Dam, and last I heard our rivers are not powered by fossil fuels. Whether this will affect your actual heating bill I have no idea, but gas rates are definately going up according to the newspaper. However they also did say that if you use your gas year-round you’ll get a better deal because it’s better for the pipes. I am not sure how much gas you have to use to make it cost-effective - for myself, I have gas heat and a gas water heater (and gas logs that aren’t really used), but not a gas stove or appliances or anything.
SCE&G has a big generating plant at Canaday’s, SC, it is fueled with coal. The two newer generating plants in Cope, SC and Hardeeville, SC are both fueled by natural gas.
We live in Ohio. Every Ohioan I know who has a heat pump has been very unhappy with it.
But seeing that you live in SC, a heat pump would probably be O.K. for you.
Than it is the contractor that is responsible, not the heat pump, or the equipment.
(this from a contractor that just installed a heat pump in St Paris among other places)
I know hundreds of Ohioans who are happy with their heat pumps. Among those who aren’t, the majority are due to poor installation or service from the contractor
A smaller minority are unhappy due to perception. As YWalker correctly noted, a heat pump will produce discharge air temps betweem 90°-105°, and often slightly cooler than your body temp. For those used to fossil fuels (Oil,Gas,Propane) there is a perception that the heat is “cold” due to the discharge temps they’re used to----generally between 110°-120° for gas/oil.
LSLGuy said:
With all due respect, this is is absolutely not true.
One does not need to know the price of gas 20 years from now to make an informed decision. I am a HVAC contractor and have software that plots the relative pros/cons using all of the known variables—including first cost, efficiencies,SEER ,COP & AFUE ratings, insulation values, roofing etc etc etc. (there are many more)
I have no biases. The customer will buy from me and I will make a reasonable margin no matter what they ultimately choose. I sell/install Gas, Propane, Oil, Air Source Heat Pumps, Ground Source/GeoThermal Heat Pumps,Boilers and Electric. Based on circumstances (including availibility of gas for example) there may be a different approach for each customer.
But…in the midwest it is absolutley clear to me that the most compelling purchase----all things considered----is a combination Heat Pump coupled with Natural Gas a secondary (backup) heat. The numbers are often stunning. It is common (given gas prices for example) for this combination to produce savings of 20, 30 and 40 percent. The savings are bid, and they are quantifiable.
The savings are big, not bid… (typo)
I agree with some of this, however…
There is nothing stopping Ring from getting a heat pump, coupled with a gas furnace. There is a perception that heat pumps are always installed with electric as the backup heat source. that is the most common, but if gas is available I would recommend a Heat Pump/Natural Gas combination. That will produce the greatest savings in most locations. (I don’t know gas/electric prices where Ring resides)
‘Replacing the defroast timer frequently’ is very bad advice. Would you replace your alternator frequently because one day it will fail; perhaps while in a bad location?
Of course not.
The appropriate course is to take your car to a mechanic on a scheduled basis for maintenence. The same applies to a heating/cooling system. Have a qualified firm/technician service it regularly. It’s simple preventive maintenence.
Lastly, heat pumps are indeed less efficient as the outside temp gets colder. However…32° may not be the right temp for Ring’s house. I won’t go into the details, but an outdoor thermostat, properly set up, makes this function automatic,