I wasn’t even sure what “living out loud” meant until a few months ago. My partner and I don’t cram our homosexuality down other peoples throats (sorry…), but we don’t withhold our affection for each other while in public. We don’t give each other blow-jobs while out in public, but if we feel like kissing or holding hands while walking down the street in hetero suburbia, we do. We hold hands a LOT. We do it because we love each other, and not to shock other people. We feel that we are doing a public service to society by making them numb to gay Public Displays of Affection by gay people. I should point out that we’re not suicidal. We both know when NOT to do it. e.g. Hells Angels biker rallys, etc.
One of the things I’ve noticed is that 99.9% of people who encounter our PDA’s don’t even care. Most people just glance at us and continue with their own affairs. The only negative experience we had was at O’Hare airport. We were casually waiting for our flight and my partner gave me a quick peck on the cheek. A man sitting nearby saw us and started yelling to other people, “did you see those two fags kissing?” I think he was trying to rally up some support for a lynching. Luckily, no one paid any attention to him. We thought it was kind of amusing.
Anyway, I’d like to hear from other gay dopers with positive or negative experiences on the subject. Non-gay dopers can respond too.
My first girlfriend was so butch she just *was * “loud” - there was nothing subtle about her. I liked it. My girlfriend now was in the Air Force and works for the Feds, so she’s a lot more conservative out of habit, I think. She embarasses easily too. I wish she was more out sometimes. I’ve gotten looked at my whole life. Getting looked at doesn’t bother me. These are the 2 extremes. I’ve had other girlfriends that land in the middle.
Heh, jelly, your first gf sounds like me in reverse Just existing and behaving as is natural for me is enough for me to be out, or at least give someone some deeeeeeeeep suspicions.
And I have never restricted public displays of affection any more stringently than is acceptable for straight people. I speak, hug, kiss, and hold hands as appropriate for everyone. The gender of my partners is not shameful.
Yeah, she was somethin’! Kinda like, “Yep, that’s a dyke right there!” (sorry if anyone hates “dyke”; I like them…er, I mean it ). She also got a lot of “That will be $17.50, sir”, which she hated, and men sometimes picked fights with her, which really sucked. We were still pretty brave, though (although this is So. CA - how brave do you have to be, LOL?)
Well, I was never a big fan of making out in public back when I thought I was straight, so I can’t imagine that’ll change much if I ever – I mean, when I ever find a boyfriend. There’s no telling; maybe I’ll be in relationship and I’m so in love with the other person that I forget where I am and am moved to express how I feel, but it’ll always be about the other person and never about who’s watching.
Since this is IMHO, I’m entitled to be sanctimonious here:
The term “public displays of affection” should be your warning sign. The word “display” implies that you’re showing off; it’s for the benefit of an audience. That’s not a “public service,” that’s just kind of creepy, and it cheapens the relationship. (As should be obvious: that’s just my opinion). As long as you think, even subliminally, that two men or two women holding hands or kissing each other in public is going to teach those uptight suburban heterosexuals a lesson, instead of its being a genuine expression of devotion to a person, then it’s just an empty gesture.
And it does nothing to get rid of the notion that a lot of straight people have, that two guys kissing each other is just one step away from giving each other BJ’s in public. You’re never going to convince anyone that “we’re just the same as you” if you’ve got the idea in the back of your head “look at us! look how much the same we are!”
If a straight doper may respond, in general, I’ve never approved of “public displays” (which to me means kissing - hand holding is okay by me) for anybody. I guess that attitude comes with geezerhood. But I always considered an airport a kind of “free kissing zone” because people are either greeting or saying goodbye. What could be more natural? There was nothing distressing about your behavior, which is more than I can say for the bigoted jerk who yelled at you.
That said, it still bothers me when I see hetero couples standing in line at a movie theater or even the grocery store sucking face as if they are the only people on the planet. There is a time and a place for everything. I don’t shout at them, though.
I took this to mean that you don’t take PDAs to extremes. I’ve seen straight people do this, and it ain’t pretty then, either. Just makes me wanna tell them to get a room, y’know?
I believe it was about 15 years ago, I was talking to one of my sisters who is gay (I actually have two sisters who are gay), and she was bemoaning the fact that she and her girlfriend didn’t enjoy the same freedoms as straight people. She was speaking of things like hand holding in public. She said that to do that was to invite getting pounded on by someone who was too uptight. I said at the time that it was my opinion that all gays ought to start holding hands in public, cuz you can’t just beat them all up. I think attitudes have changed somewhat since then, and I’m glad. I don’t wanna see anyone get too personal in public; some stuff just belongs behind closed doors, right? But if you’re talking about holding hands and light kissing, I don’t see a problem with it.
That’s true, but you may be able to make the point “we won’t go away just because you pretend we don’t exist”.
It’s always been important for me to have a boyfriend who’s comfortable with this. It would feel like going back in the closet otherwise, especially in Montreal where straight couples kissing on the street or in the metro are such a common sight.
I was snickered at and called names a couple of times, but never yelled at or attacked.
Could not disagree more. It’s both an expression of devotion and a political act. The fact remains that publicly expressing affection for a same-sex partner anywhere in the United States (if not the world) is still a risky act. There are still bashings in the gayest of enclaves (West Hollywood, SF, Key West, etc.). A PDA does serve the purpose of making same-sex affection a reality for people who may otherwise not see it and thus preserve it in their minds as something “shocking.” It has nothing to do with “we’re the same as you.” It’s all about “we have the same right to express our affection that you grant to mixed-sex couples.”
I wish MORE same-sex couples would have little public displays of affection. Seeing something like that can leave me with a fuzzy-happy feeling for DAYS.
In retrospect, I probably shouldn’t be living in Baltimore, then…
Well, I have issues with this on both a personal and political level.
Personally, as I said earlier, I believe that any affection I show to my partner should be just for his and my benefit. It’s only about the two of us, and I could give a rat’s ass who’s watching. If I’m thinking at all about what other people’s reaction is going to be, then it stops being about “us” and it starts being about “them.” It can’t be both. For me. Your make-out may vary.
Politically, I desperately want society to evolve to the point where the whole question is moot. Where the question isn’t just directed at gay dopers, but is a question of how much public affection is appropriate for anyone. Straight couples can kiss and hold hands in public without an agenda, without feeling the need to put a “shocking image” in people’s minds – so how come I should be obligated to? I’m not out to shock anyone, just the opposite; I want it to be a non-issue.
In fact, I have to wonder if “shocking” people does more harm than good. It emphasizes how we’re different instead of emphasizing how we’re the same. Take a show like “Saturday Night Live,” which has a political and cultural viewpoint I agree with 99% of the time. And still, time and time again, the big joke of a sketch is two guys kissing each other. It reinforces the whole “lookit them homos!” thing, it turns it into a joke. The Onion said it better with their “Gay Pride Parade Sets Gay Rights Movement Back 20 Years” article. Setting out to shock people just reinforces stereotypes that are harmful to both straight people and closeted gay people who can’t identify with someone wearing assless chaps and yelling over a megaphone that he’s not going to go away.
I came out for purely selfish reasons, so that I could have the type of relationship I’ve always wanted without having to consider what other people thought. The last thing I’m going to do is put myself back in the position where other people’s opinions – whether they’re gay or straight – affects my behavior. If anyone implies that I’m not “gay enough,” or that I’m ashamed of being gay, or that I’m somehow complicit in gay-bashings because I’m not demonstrative enough, then I’ll gladly go tell him to fuck himself. (And I’m definitely not saying that you were implying that, Otto. (But if by chance you were and I was too dense to get it, then, well, you know.))
I don’t want to make that point. I believe it’s divisive and defensive. I just want to make the point, “not that it’s really any of your business, but this is a part of who I am, and it’s nothing to be afraid of.”
If you’re engaged in a PDA and it’s not somewhere in your mind the possible reaction of others then IMHO you’re taking a foolish risk with your own safety.
I didn’t say I was interested in shocking anyone. What I said was that same-sex affection is seen as shocking and it will continue to be seen as shocking until it is made otherwise.
I’d love to, Eats_Crayons, but I get the feeling it aint gonna be in Brisbane, Australia, is it? Dang.
PDAs: All for ‘em. My ex was anti-PDA. It used to frustrate the ever-lovin’ heck out of me. She was afraid a workmate might see her. In another city. Bah.
MaxBabe, on the other hand, likes holding hands in public. I do too. We cuddle and kiss too. Not porno-kissing, just light smooches that say “I love ya”.
And I do agree that gay PDAs are as much a political thing as they are personal. I think of it as educating every schmuck out there that lesbians are real people - not just something they read about in Playboy. No closet for me, baby!
Max.
Just existing and behaving as is natural for me is enough for me to be out, or at least give someone some deeeeeeeeep suspicions.