Gay Marriage in Canada

Great Debates
1

Okay, so this is going to sound a bit lazy, but I’m swamped with work right now.

There’s been a lot of buzz lately in the news about Stephen Harper’s confidence that he can stop national gay marriage from becoming a reality in Canada. Is this in fact that case?

If it is, what can I do to fight the good fight? (I’ve already sent letters to the PM, my MP, and signed at least two petitions supporting SSM) Where’s the best place to expend my limited effort.

2

Not unless the NDP and Bloq suddenly become Tory members.

3

It seems to me that Harper (like pretty much every politician) just likes to hear the sound of his own voice, and is blathering on about this to score visual points with close-minded rednecks who support him because it’s easier to fall back on their support than to court the favour of the rest of the country. He’s a lazy politician who could have changed the face of government in Canada and has failed. I doubt he’ll last another leadership convention, unless the Conservatives continue their recent history of in-fighting and poor campagining. Either way, I’m not worried about gay-marriage getting defeated, because enough people support it to win the good fight.

4

Rather, that should have been “assuming the Conservatives continue their recent history…”

5

You might want to write Harper and tell him to drop the “polygmy” boogieman. I don’t imagine it winning anyone new over and it’s kind of a mixed bag as far as drawing the immigrant vote (one of it’s stated purposes). The tactic looks like flailing.

6

Agreed. No matter how they meant it (i.e. appealing to the uncertainty it may introduce to family structure, the primacy of Parliament, an appeal to bigots, etc.) it has nicely

  1. Placed them on the defensive (again!) from the charge of being knuckle dragging throwbacks.
  2. Completely undone any gains they may have been making in Quebec
  3. Placed them in the difficult position of explaining that their use of the not withstanding clause as constitutional tool is constitutional.
  4. Distracted them from obvious easy targets presented by a minority government.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victors. That’s them there Tories.

7

Let’s face it, aside from the minor details this is a done deal. Bringing this before the Supreme court before teh Law has even been passed was obviously a Liberal stalling technique but the side benifit is that the basic law as it stands can not be easily questioned as unconstitutional.

For all those screaming for a referendum let them scream. This is a minority rights issue and as such should never be decided by plebicite. As for Harper, he has doomed the Conservative party again. We need the old fashioned Red Tories back in the driver seat. Fiscally Conservative socially liberal is the only way to win over the most voters. This fringe politics the Conservatives have carried from the Reform/ Canadian Alliance Party will never win them Eastern votes, they will be relegated to the Bloc of the West.

Now how about taking a swipe at Ole Jean chretien trying to derail the Sponsership Scandal commission.

8

I have to agree with the consensus here.

Best case for Harper: he succeeds in swaying enough Liberal backbenchers to defeat the bill introduced today. What happens then? Well, nothing, really. All the provincial court decisions would remain in effect, and gay marriage would continue to be legally sanctioned in most of the country. Should the bill fail, you should expect to see immediate court challenges in the remaining three provinces, all of which will be successful. Then Alberta will appeal the decision there to the Supreme Court, and lose decisively, and Harper will finally have to stop pretending that he can get his way on this without the Notwithstanding Clause.

So what then? The Conservatives might conceivably introduce a bill invoking the Notwithstanding Clause. Martin’s on record saying that any vote on the Notwithstanding Clause would not be a free vote for the Liberal party, and one would expect to see that bill defeated handily, as it won’t have any support in the Bloc or NDP.

If Harper is smart, he should be playing to lose this one. He should be kicking up just enough of a fuss to appease his social conservative base in Alberta without upsetting too many of the more libertarian fiscal conservatives out east, because should he succeed in bringing down the government over this (I’m assuming that any vote on the Notwithstanding Clause would include a confidence motion), I think he guarantees himself significant losses amongst Ontario conservatives in the ensuing election, and Martin would be back in with a majority.

Dammit, I want a credible national opposition party to hold those damn Liberals accountable, but here Harper goes marginalizing the Conservative Reform Alliance Party again.

9

full text of the bill as presented to parliament today. here is the main part:

there’s no way around it, it is happening, and if the paleo-cons don’t like it well too bad.

10

That is the most beautiful piece of legislation I have ever read.