MrVisible, I believe you’ve mentioned something about Wingspan (a Tucson-based GLBT organization) before – could people work with organizations like this? Would organizations like this be a feasible way to reach out to gay youth outside of schools?
In addition, does anyone have any ideas how to reach out to homeschooled GLBT teens? Are there any special challenges there?
For example, there’s a troupe in Montreal that does a play entitled The Other Side of the Closet, as part of an anti-homophobia education program.
What is it about gay linguists, anyway? I’d have gone into linguistics myself if my school offered the major; as it is, I had to settle for a double in Com/Phil with as much linguistics-related stuff in each department as possible.
“What is it about gay linguists, anyway?”
I have my own unscientific hypotheses. 
I taught linguistics for many years (I now do research exclusively). A disproportionate percentage of my male students were openly gay. A disproportionate percentage also appeared to be left-handed (at least when they wrote on exams).Go figure.
I am also told by my colleagues in the Deaf and ASL communities that a huge percentage of sign interpreters are gay.
I think it’s the bilabial fricatives, myself.
Or the copula verbs.
Not to mention the ejaculations! 
Seriously, you may be onto something here – if there is one thing I’ve noticed in my ongoing education in “gay studies” it’s the degree of mental agility required to position oneself conceptually in roles contrary to those considered normative by a society. I can easily see that leading to an interest in the various ways that such concepts are articulated and conceptualized.
Which is, of course, the latest in our ongoing hijacks of the thread topic. No wonder those poor gay teens never get any help!
It was half-humourous, half-serious.
The humourous part was Bert and Ernie. The serious part was that I had heard somewhere that it had come up on an episode (something to the effect of, “Gays and lesbians are human beings”), but when I googled, all I came up with was Bert and Ernie references.
Why can’t people just live and let live? Even if you think homosexuality is wrong, why focus on it? Simply go ahead and live your life and let others live theirs. If it IS a sin, would it matter? It would be between those people and God?
I would think that it’s none of anyone’s business.
I know people who feel that way-my dad is one of them. I don’t think, deep down, he “approves”, but he always told me to mind my own business, and treat EVERYONE with respect and dignity. That means you don’t go around telling people they’re wrong and going to Hell if they don’t change.
Why, Sr. Frances (God rest her soul!) would box my ears if she heard me utter such a thing! She’d tell me to mind my own business, and let God take care of it. In the meantime, I had to show love for others.
One of the most heartwarming things I ever saw was a Sailor Moon fan site by an 11-year-old girl. She wrote something to the effect of, “In Japan, Zoicite is a boy. They were worried that seeing two boys in love would make people gay (which isn’t true by the way!).”
All media aimed at kids is censored for this sort of thing. Why is that? Heterosexual relationships, as long as the sexual aspect is kept hidden, are considered perfectly acceptable for kids.
Censoring anime, though, is especially obnoxious. When Hanna-Barbara or Disney writes a cartoon, the gay elements never even make it into the script in the first place. Anime, though, has so many GLB characters that editing and rewriting the script is a major effort, and some series can’t even be brought over for that reason.
Making a major effort to remove the slightest hint of homosexual romance from something aimed at kids is really insulting. And I’ve learned from anime discussion groups that the teenagers who see uncensored versions of anime with queer characters tend to think more about these issues, and develop a more open mind.
We should try and get sympathetic characters into a variety of shows aimed at kids. But in this one area (anime), it would particularly simple, and it would do a helluvalot of good.
Ah, but remember He-Man, Hamish? I still can’t get over the blatant homoerotic overtones-that I completely and utterly missed as a kid. (Of course, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as homosexuality, back then)
Don’t remember those at all.
It is true that a few cartoons have managed vague hints – I certainly remember Bugs Bunny in drag 
But would it be too much to ask that it be a little more “out?” I mean, I can’t think of an openly-gay character on a North american cartoon, except for the ones aimed at adults (The Simpsons, South Park).
When I came out at sixteen, there was predictably nothing anywhere in Victoria (what do you expect of a town with two gay bars, one of which is called Rumours). With the help of some sympathetic teachers and social workers, I helped start the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Youth Victoria group in 1993.
AIDS Vancouver Island – the Island’s main AIDS-support and advocacy group – donated the space. I was the only attendee for the first four or five months – hell, I was the only gay youth I knew at first. When people started arriving, I found myself in the position of peer counsellor, because no one else had had the experience of being out in school for any length of time. At our height, we had 15 people or so.
I couldn’t have done it without adult support. I met them through a sympathetic school counsellor (he had never met an openly gay person, but luckily was open-minded), who put me in touch (through child services) with a lesbian teacher. It’s these kinds of haphazard, informal networks that get these kinds of groups started. Pretty soon, quite a few adults were helping out, playing the role of facilitator at the youth group.
I guess I’m just mentioning this as a way people could help out.
When I escaped to Vancouver, I found that had nine queer youth groups. Three of them had been started by a man who had been tossed out of his home and had been forced, during his teenage years, to turn to prostitution. His groups – all of which were out in the boonies, conservative Christian country – survived on donations. That’s another way people can help.
When we mention authors’ marriages or other personal biographical details, no one ever suggests that heterosexuality will become the #1 focus of every academic subject. Similarly, I think it’s possible to incorporate Whitman’s homosexuality into his basic biography without making a lesson plan just about his sexuality.
Also, I don’t think it’s reasonable to bring up Whitman’s sexuality only if students ask. Teachers are in a position of authority in a classroom and provide some comfort, assurance in comfortably discussing an author’s sexuality; the same cannot be conveyed by a peer asking, “Wasn’t he gaaaaaaay?”
I think addressing curriculum issues outside of sex ed can be very beneficial in promoting students’ self esteem. I know that learning about authors such as Toni Morrison and Sylvia Plath not only helped me understand women’s issues, but also provided me with some pride in the achievements of women. I think schools attempt to do the same for African American kids and could do so for GLBT teens. (Back to avalongod’s DaVinci example: I didn’t need to know Plath was a woman to value her work, but knowing she was a woman helped make it more meaningful to me. Similar to ava’s post about gay characters acting toward each other in a loving manner.)
Further, I think support systems, such as the Safe Zone, are useful, as are student groups.
The issue of what to teach in sex ed is more difficult. In general, I think sex ed, as I experienced it, was too removed from my practical reality, too clinical. I’m sure that’s what the adults were comfortable with. As I understand it, sex ed has become less useful since I graduated from high school and generally includes less information about birth control, STDs.
I don’t know how to work out the details, but I’d like to see a sex ed that deals with a broader view of sexuality…not just incorporating GLBT issues, but issues of intimacy, consent, pleasure. (Sorry if this counts as a hijack?)
If I can borrow the hijack for one last post or two, then how do you account for a straight linguist like me? I would have studied linguistics in college, but it was hard enough convincing my father Japanese was practical. Instead, I consider myself a practical one.
CJ
“Cyber-human linguist at your service.”
I think this is important too. I went to a private, Catholic, all-girl’s high school and we had many seperate teachings of sex ed.
In Christian Awareness (something that all first-year students have to take) we learned about many things, including sex. I still remember the first day of our sex ed class. One of the students asked why we had to go over sex ed, after all, weren’t we going to cover it in health class? My teacher, a nun, happily replied “Because Jesus had a penis!”. We learned basic anatomy as normal, but we also talked about rape, boyfriends, body image and other issues that girls face.
In health class we covered more anatomy (internal mostly), basics of sex, childbirth, and STDs.
THEN we had PSI or Post-Poning Sexual Involvement. PSI is a religious based program with emphasis on sexual abstinence. It, however, was very informative. It covered many topics and the leaders were college-aged, so we could better relate. They taught us about contraceptives, STDs and issues with consent.
From this page:
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/pag/effective.htm
Planned Parenthood has an overview of different sex-ed programs. They have a check list at the bottom of different topics to cover. I think all the topics mentioned there are important and should be covered in sex ed.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/education/020808_2ndedition.pdf
Real simple answer there, CJ – you and I were ostracized for other reasons, and had to forge an identity in adolescence more or less from scratch instead of shaping our own on the framework shared by our peers – much like what the gay people do. Why do you think we’re particularly drawn to their problems? We were “queer” – just not homosexually so.
It really does. I do a lot of work with children, having raised about 6 personally, and I’ve found this is one of the best ways to remove homophobia. It doesn’t have to be obnoxious, there doesn’t have to even be kissing involved, the characters don’t even have to say “I love you.” Just showing two characters being close to one another and involved completely for one enough can really make a difference.
I’m from Ohio, my siblings and I went to Catholic schools all our years. The grade school we went to had a really negative view of sexuality and homosexuality was talked about in only the most negative of terms. After talking with my older brother, I realized that not only did he not understand a lot about homosexuality and bisexuality (despite having gay friends even) but he had a lot of misconceptions of gays and bisexuals. When I came out to him and told him I was bisexual, he asked me “Does that mean you do both guys and girls at the same time?”
My younger siblings, however, who were exposed to homosexual couples through anime, have an understanding of homosexuals and a positive view of them. My sister, who is the one of the biggest Conservative, Republican, Christians you’ll ever meet, recently sent me a link to a fan website of Lord of the Rings that had plenty of homoeroticness and said it was one of her favorites.
So far I’ve been working to get unsensored animes on American TV. We’ve made some success, as with adult swim, but we still have a long way to go. Right now, most if it is on video. I know that if more people supported it, more would come out. I have been promoting YAOI/Yuri for several years now and it really has grown. When I first started, there were many 4 videos available in America of anime that was entirely about homosexual characters. Much more have been added and I think now we have 10 at least with more coming.
I hate the “sin versus” sinner thing. It does way more harm than good. I have many gay friends, of these Ariana and Moses.
Ariana is a lesbian Jew who is still in High School here in California. She’s a virgin, hasn’t even ever had a girlfriend. She’s open about her sexuality and tried to get a group together in her High School to talk about gender and sexuality issues, but was denied. After she started this movement, she started getting death threats from the leader of the Christan Club!! (And several of her lackies) I could not believe it until I heard a few on her cell phone. She has also had her locker broken into, nasty things written on it and has been harassed in other ways. I have told her many times to report it to the principal, but she says nothing ever comes of it.
Moses has been in college for a bit now, but several years ago, while still in High School in Ohio, he was involved in a Youth Group. The leader of the Youth Group, suspecting Moses was gay, sent other members of the Youth Group to spy on him and basically harass him. Moses came out to the group as being gay and was kicked out despite the fact that he was virginal.
Neither of these two had committed any sin, yet they were harassed and bullied by “Christian” people. Not just single people, but “Christians” in large groups.
I’m Christian myself, but I can see why a lot of gays have negative attitudes towards Christians after how a lot of Christians treat them.
I’m not sure if un-censoring anime would really be a great leap forward, since the GLBT characters in anime don’t seem to have done much to advance acceptance of GLBT people in Japan. And from what I can gather from my Japanese friends, some characters seen as GLBT by Westerners are not seen as such by the Japanese anyway. But the fact that GLBT characters are virtually non-existant in the popular media (and the few that are present are usually broad stereotypes) does mean that GLBT youths who aren’t lucky enough to know adults who are out don’t have anyone to identify themselves with.
In college I’ve often heard young lesbian and bisexual women (it’s a women’s college) say things like, “I couldn’t come out until college, not even to myself, because until I came here I didn’t know or even know of any lesbian/bisexual women…or if I did they were freaks, like that ugly gym teacher everyone made fun of. I didn’t want to be like that, but I never saw any lesbian/bisexual women who looked and acted like normal people and had regular jobs and things.”
I’m sure it would be a big help to GLBT youth if they had more images of GLBT adults as just regular adults who happen to have a different sexual orientation or gender identity than the majority of adults. It won’t be easy to change the media, but just being an out adult yourself or mentioning GLBT friends casually in a natural way (“Yesterday I saw Fred and his boyfriend at the store…”) instead of dancing around it (“Yesterday I saw Fred and his…roommate…yes, his good friend…at the store”) are little things that may help a lot.
(Let’s hope I get this in the right thread this time.)
Yes indeed! Pushing Christianity on me is about as fruitless as trying to teach a whale to walk. But CJ, you really did the right thing. I appreciate it. You’re the coolest “crazy lady” ever!
Unfortunately, my 13-year-old sister and my neighbor who I call my “sister” were the ones indulging in the bullying. It wasn’t exactly bullying in the traditional sense (From what I heard, they told some kid his last name means “poop” in Swedish, and he thought it was funny), but it wasn’t really nice either. I’ve told my sister a million times NEVER to bully anyone, yet I see her being mean to others all the time. She’s especially mean to me. While we’re sisters and we’re supposed to insult each other and fight all the time, she goes too far. We can be sitting at the dinner table, and she’ll just randomly start making fun of the way I eat. Then when I defend myself, she accuses me of having a “temper tantrum” when all I do is tell her to leave me alone. grumbles The girl has issues. I can’t believe I’m related to her…