I don’t know what to say to someone who believes that Ronald Reagan was the first lying politician. So, I’ll just shut up.
Guin,
Yes, yes we should. Will we? I don’t know. Perhaps we won’t have to. There are those who believe in the “democracy domino” theory, though I’m not certain of the validity of that particular theory.
monstro,
Maybe we did, maybe we didn’t, but the point is we currently DO NOT - and the current policy addresses countries/individuals/businesses CURRENTLY supporting/aiding/harboring. Personally, I find your argument intentionally obtuse/inflammatory.
by Dirk
If this is so fucking obvious, then why is an alarming percentage of the American people under the impression that Iraq is directly related to 9/11? Do you think the Bush League has anything to do with this confusion?
Sure, but come on now! How many times did Bush tell us that Iraq was a imminent threat to the U.S.? Lost count? Me too. Now, if you can, tell me how many times Bush told us that Iraq was a imminent threat to Israel? Can’t do it? Neither can I! Did Bush make the case for war based on the fact that funds were being sent to the Palistinians terrorist? No, he did not. He rushed us into war based on the lie that Hussein had WMDs (not programs, but the actual weapons). He rushed us into war based on the allegation that Iraq was only a few days away from attacking us. But there was no evidence of this. Just conjecture.
Even now, as bullets and bombs rain on our soldier’s heads, without one WMD found, we have Bush and his pals saying the same stuff they were saying 3 years ago. Even after most if not all the intelligence has been discredited, they are still saying that Iraq was an urgent threat. And then, when they think no one is paying attention, they switch to “we came in to liberate an oppressed people” mode. Al-Queda had fuckall to do with Iraq. But you wouldn’t know that by listening to Bush’s speeches. This is misdirection at its finest.
Official policy would probably allow us to go after more than half the countries in the world, including our allies. But that’s irrelevant. Just because we can doesn’t mean we should, especially the way we did. This war is like the IRS spending millions of dollars to go after the lower-middle class bloke that forgot to pay his taxes, while turning a blind eye to the exploits of Mr. Enron.
I’m sorry, Lib… didn’t mean to seem like I was cutting you off. And yes, I know that Ronald Reagan wasn’t the first lying politician. And there were other politicians who were certainly worse about dirty tricks. And there have been other blitheringly incompetent politicians, and blah, blah, blah.
What bugs me is the idea that a man can be so obviously what he is… and yet claim to be something else… and blatantly lie about the obvious truths, his own and someone else’s…
…and *so many people * will STILL believe him.
It’s starting to feel like we’re supporting our politicians the way we support our football teams… anything goes, as long as Our Team wins.
Make no doubt about it, fella. We did it once. And then again.
Now, you’d have a point if there was evidence that SH supported/aided/harbored anti-American terrorists*. We don’t have evidence of this. We never did. Bushie had Saddam on the brain way before 9/11. Way before he took office. We went into Iraq because of his fucking bloodlust, period.
The 11,000 Iraqi civilians killed in this war had nothing to do with Al-Queda or 9/11. We didn’t go to war with SH’s regime. We went to war on the Iraqi people. And now we’ve created a whole generation of terrorists. Beautiful.
*We don’t seem to care about terrorists threatening other countries. IMHO, we should really call The War On Terrorists Who Hate America, not The War On Terrorism.
I think this hits the nail on the head. I have been very frustrated with exactly the matter you are describing - the bald faced lies, the self-serving deceit, the abuse of power, and the lack of interest among the voters. In this case, I am a partisan supporter of the other side, so my crying foul is not unexpected. But in dark moments, I have entertained the wish that we would do just the same in order to regain power. I don’t really want this - I’d rather that the truth does exert power and influence, and justice prevails, but when it doesn’t… what do we do?
Who the fuck is this “Booka” that keeps buzzing in my ear? Anybody got a can of Raid?
You were already fucking given a fucking excerpt from fucking transcripts.tv, along with the notation that it’s a pay site and you’re not worth it. Now, do you claim she *didn’t * say it, schmuck?
I think you’re gonna have to take the transcripts.tv site (and I guess pay for it…?), since that’s going to be the only “primary source” you will find. (ABCNews’s website links to www.transcripts.tv)
It would be foolish to try and argue that she didn’t say this, though.
LilShieste
DtC, you must have gotten the conventions confused. Kerry’s speech was totally lame and I fell asleep during it. Bush’s speech was outstanding. I’m gonna really enjoy voting for him in November.
IANAD, but I do believe that is a clear symptom of the dreaded craniorectal inversion disorder. And contrary to what you may have been led to believe, drinking the Kool-Aid only worsens the condition.
Excuse me? Weak views on the military? Laddie, you gotta get out more and pay attention to the world around you. More specifically, pay attention to that which you knee-jerkingly denigrate.
And stop basing your views on that which issues forth from Cheney.
That’s funny, I’m voting against Bush because he will probably put soldiers in harm’s way and raise my taxes. And he’ll probably grind up puppies and roll around in the liquified essence of puppies that he’s created.
Well, fuck you and fuck Pat (I’m guessing that’s Buchanan). We do need to be a member of the UN. And do you have an instance of them telling the US how to protect itself?
Well, thank the fates!
Sure he did. Most of those things have been substantiated. The truth hurts. And since I’ve asked for this from Magiver and not heard anything, I’ll ask for the same from you: Please direct anyone who was spat upon to my e-mail address. It’s in my profile.
And he wasn’t trying to help that situation (if, by “that situation” you’re referring to Vietnam). He was trying to end it. Which was the right thing to do.
Well, then, you and I agree on something. Except that I think that Iraq was bullshit from the go. And since there was no dealing with Afghanistan on any real level, the US has managed to piss up two countries. And you think that the tipping is done in Bush’s favor? That is the “sad commentary”.
Wrong, bucko. Stoid made the original claim, and you and **Guin[/] tried to back it up with the lamest cites in SDMB history. :rolleyes:
Back up your claim, or shut the fuck up.
It’s like Alan Keyes vs Mary Cheney — not even worth dignifying by giving it your attention. You just carry on, Dio. We’ve got your back. 
Let me see if I got this right, OK, buttmunchkin…?
CommonDreams, that dastardly liberalmedia site, decides to just make shit up, out of thin air, they can pick whatever they want, they can pretend Babs said any horrible, puppy-frying thing their twisted imagination can come up with…
And they decide to dream up that relatively innocuous, but stupid, quote about her “beautiful mind”, eschewing stuff like…
“The Dark Lord rules! Bark! Arf, arf!..”
or
“Arrrrrr, me heartys, arrrrrr! Arrrrrr!”
Or
“Oooooooh, harder, Milroyj, harder, faster, more!!..Yes!..Yes!..oooh, YES!!…”
Okay, milroyj, go right ahead and start a thread here (or perhaps in Free Republic, where it might be better received) about dem nasty lib’ruls making up shit about pore ol’ Gramma Babs.
Sad wanker.
The following quotation is from the ABC News transcript for March 18, 2003.
I cannot provide a direct link, because i located this transcript on Lexis/Nexis, which is an expensive, subscription-only news database. Most public libraries and nearly all university libraries have access to this, so if you want to check it for yourself, please go to one of those locations. In the meantime, i like to think that, even if you don’t agree with my politics, you’ll trust me to quote the piece accurately:
Note: milroyj was so incensed about what he saw as ElvisL1ves’ dishonesty that he started a whole new pit thread on the subject. My comments and the quotation above essentially repeat the post i made in that thread, but i wanted to put it in this thread too, in case anyone here was under the misapprehension the milroyj has a fucking clue what he’s talking about.
Silly booka!
That’s what the ignore list is for.
Now that post is against the rules, isn’t it? I believe it is. But, since stupid milroyj brought it up, it will likely get a pass. Oh well.
This may take the cake for most insulting post ever IMO. At the very least I find it tremendously ironic.
Every line I’ve quoted there is either spin or lying. Ironic, isn’t it?
Do you have any idea how arrogant this is? There are other conclusions, including the possibility that your assessment of the facts is incorrect. Is it that hard to believe that intelligent people capable of thinking for themselves don’t agree with you?