Genetic Freedom

Given that the Amish accomplish your goals without any special laws, you have failed to make a case for these special laws.

Given that you are not going to find 10,000 genetically coherent people who want to separate from the rest of society, (if you can’t persuade us without resorting to repeating the “you don’t understand” mantra, how are you going to persuade the rest of the world?), your desire to break up the country into thousands of little homelands is silly. (280,000,000 Americans / 10,000 people to a group = 28,000 groups. That is a rather serious disruption of our current situation, in which anyone who wants to mate with anyone else (similar or dissimilar) is permitted to do so.)

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You think so? H. sapiens diverged from H. erectus around 400,000 years ago (after which H. erectus went extinct). G. gorilla gorilla and G. gorilla graueri separated between 338,000 and 436,000 years ago. In the article I cited earlier, the single subspecies of Lowland Gorilla (G. gorilla gorilla) was significantly more diverse than humans. Given that their “branching” point was either barely earlier or barely later, a claim that their diversity is a result of greater age does not actually appear to be the case. (And the gorillas did not impose any silly laws to achieve their diversity.)

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This is simply nonsense. Name someone whose work was “suppressed.” If you have only invented the concept of “genetic freedom” yourself, recently, then no one has attempted to perform research on this topic and you are simply making up resistance that has never been demonstrated. Claiming that “studies . . . are suppressed” when no one has attempted such a study is purely a lie. (By the way, your claim that you have “several times” made this point, (inaccurate as it is and unsupported by any evidence), is actually only the second time you’ve even mentioned it. Hardly a result of “several” references.)


Basically:
You claim that life is based on genetics

. . . we note that that is a truism.

You claim that this provides some great philosophical truth

. . . we note that it is simply a factoid or truism that contains no deeper meaning.

You claim that this truism is a self-evident justification for your odd beliefs,

. . . yet you cannot articulate your point sufficiently that a dozen or so observers can even figure out why you are nattering on about the topic.

You claim that the differences between (never clearly identified) groups is some fundamental right, inherited by the members of these nebulous groups to perpetuate,

. . . we note that you are free to mate within whatever group you choose without let or hindrance from the government.

You claim that that is not enough; that the government will not support you in your effort to create homelands to prevent the weaker minded of your groups from being lured away by outsiders and that laws must be created to permit your groups to separate themselves from society,

. . . we note that there are already groups who are successfully practicing endogamous breeding practices without the burden of your changes to law, which appear to make your new laws unnecessary.
People ar people and trying to establish some vague borders around people and them enshrining those arbitrary borders in law seems silly on the face of it and harmful given any thought about it. (You claim that allowing people to separate genetically will lead to peace. This flies in the face of history that demonstrates that the “genetic” Greeks and Irish and Saxons and Norse and any number of other groups, when isolated long enough to become recognizable, launched continuous warfare on themselves. Genetic coherence does nothing to alleviate internecine warfare (hence the actual word, internecine).


In the midst of all this, you have failed to persuade even one person reading this thread that there is some greater good to be had from creating little pockets of genetically distinct people all over the world, yet you claim that it is an “obvious” truth and that you are sure that the whole world will take up the cause once they understand it–despite the fact that you cannot persuade even a small handful of bright and literate people to agree with you.

In the midst of your campaign, you have displayed an amazing ignorance of history, science, language, and sociology. You repeatedly fail to demonstrate the validity of your position, resorting to claims that “it is obvious” (nothing is obvious that cannot be described) and that you have “won” (when you have failed to persuade anyone to accept your nonsense).
I suspect that you are going to have a long row to hoe getting this silly idea into the world.

Castaway, you are wasting your time. Westeren society is geared against the white race, and we are slowly begining to realise the mistakes we have made.

More and more people are becoming aware of the media deception. It’s only a matter of time.

I’ll ask again: Would a law that enforces genetic segregation help or hurt Genetic Freedom? If hurt, then how?

Oh, golly. Here come those poor put-upon white folks that are so abused and disadvantaged with only 60 or 70% of the world’s wealth held by the 20% or so of people who would generally be considered “white” (if we can figure out what “white” means).

Not that I disagree with anything you’ve been arguing about, but I have to correct that slight error. If we simplify things a bit and call all the various human population that existed 400k years ago “Erectus” (which is not too far off the mark), then we can say this:

Erectus in Africa evolved into Sapiens by about 150k years years ago.

Erectus in Europe evolved into Neanderthals by about 250k years ago.

Erectus in Asia continued to exist at least until about 100k years ago, and possibly as late as 35k years ago.

At any rate, it would be incorrect to say that Erectus went extinct 400k years ago.

castaway you’re hilarious!

What does a “pure blooded” Swede or African look like? You do know that Africa is a big place and all Africans don’t look alike…right? How do you determine what a ‘pure’ blooded African looks like and how long does one have to be in Sweden before they get to be “pure”?

As for the rest of your prediction, I must confess I was a little disappointed. I was hoping for some nice charts and graphs, telling me whether or not the child would have fast or slow twitch leg muscles or the size of the brain, width of the nose or a nice color wheel predicting the amount of melanin…I mean really. And where’s the penis or labia size data at?

You’ve let me down. When you kept comparing dolphins to humans on the genetic level…i assumed you would be able to give me specific details of human genetic differences, the way you could tell a dolphin wasn’t a human…not these… generalities.

You prediction is well, worthless…Let’s forget that it falls apart went talking about “unpure” humans. It’s no different than predicting that a pregnant woman has a fifty-fifty chance of having boy. C’mon, " The skin color of the kid will be some blended color, sometimes lighter and sometimes darker…" That’s a prediction?

How about this, “The kid will have 10 fingers and 10 toes, sometimes bigger, sometimes smaller…” How I’m doing?

Blended color…Hell I can say that about any couple having a baby…you do know that there’s great variation in complexion in the “white” race don’t you? You know greater variation within a group, than outside it…and all that jazz?

I predict that in a standard deck of playing cards, you have a chance of picking either a red or black one…is that a valid prediction?

I don’t blame you…I mean, generalities are like that, but not what I would use to create a new world order, based on race… um sorry, genetic freedomtm
…but that’s me.

BTW do you have a logo yet?

Castaway, if you would, please answer a few questions for me.

How can skin color influence cultural development? What is it specifically about skin color that influences cultural development? Does eye color or hair color also influence cultural development? Examples would be nice too. Thanks!

It doesn’t isolate human migration it simply frees human branching…

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[QUOTE=tomndebb]
Given that the Amish accomplish your goals without any special laws, you have failed to make a case for these special laws.**

You don’t comprehend it, I’m not going to be able to educate you this time… end round one (with you). I’ve already clearly explained, and the essay clearly explains everything you keep claiming I havn’t explained. There is no point for me to waste brainpower talking at you… Ignorant people like you will be educated in time by others.

H. sapiens diverged from H. erectus around 400,000 years ago (after which H. erectus went extinct). G. gorilla gorilla and G. gorilla graueri separated between 338,000 and 436,000 years ago. In the article I cited earlier, the single subspecies of Lowland Gorilla (G. gorilla gorilla) was significantly more diverse than humans. Given that their “branching” point was either barely earlier or barely later, a claim that their diversity is a result of greater age does not actually appear to be the case. (And the gorillas did not impose any silly laws to achieve their diversity.)

Genetic Science is in it’s infancy. There isn’t a lot of absolute truth yet known. I was making a comment based on fundamental and sound logic that genetic life branches and changes with isolated breeding and time. I havn’t studied the specifics regarding human evolution. That is completely irrelevant to the concept of Genetic Freedom. It really is.
That Genetic Freedom is a fundamental right, however, is an absolute truth that your ignorance will not be able to suppress or oppress, no matter how hard you try.

**- - -
Basically:

. . . yet you cannot articulate your point sufficiently that a dozen or so observers can even figure out why you are nattering on about the topic. **

You all aren’t observers, you are people who have been well conditioned by education and the other media matrix sources, and you MAY be a person with an agenda to maintain the world order as is. The essay clearly explains everything you claim it doesn’t. Against ignorance like that the only solution is to move onto the next person and eventually, YOU will be consumed by peer pressure to jump on the bandwagon, since that appears to be all you are capable of.
You claim that that is not enough; that the government will not support you in your effort to create homelands to prevent the weaker minded of your groups from being lured away by outsiders and that laws must be created to permit your groups to separate themselves from society.

Complete and utter ignorance on the topic of Genetic Freedom…
. . . we note that there are already groups who are successfully practicing endogamous breeding practices without the burden of your changes to law, which appear to make your new laws unnecessary.
Completely ignoring things I’ve said before… You are not having a conversation. You are serving your agenda. Talking with a person like you is like talking with a wall. Eventually the walls will be torn down. The debate techniques of old will die with your position…

In the midst of all this, you have failed to persuade even one person reading this thread that there is some greater good to be had from creating little pockets of genetically distinct people all over the world, yet you claim that it is an “obvious” truth and that you are sure that the whole world will take up the cause once they understand it–despite the fact that you cannot persuade even a small handful of bright and literate people to agree with you.

They willl. I simply know that they will. There is nothing I or you can do to stop it. It’s just a matter of time. Humans will freely branch, genetically, and laws will be structured accordingly to be neutral towards it. It seems you cannot comprehend that laws are not neutral towards it now.
**In the midst of your campaign, you have displayed an amazing ignorance of history, science, language, and sociology. **

Not even close. Small mistakes here and there, and otherwise things that are not important to the concept of genetic freedom that you, or someone else, asked me to comment about, and I commented as best I could. I learn during these conversations sometimes - but you don’t, obviously.

The law needs to be neutral towards Genetic Freedom via proximity. Currently the law enforces genetic homogenization. A law that enforced genetic freedom would state that “if a group of individuals so desire they may discriminate on the basis of genetics in a district (of some established size).” Enforcing Genetic Segregation seems it would be more than just that. Unless I know what this law is that enforces genetic segregation, I can’t answer the question.

Fantastic! That’s more in line with this and that I’ve read here and there. But either way it’s irrelevant to whether Genetic Freedom is a fundamental human right today.

OK, once the Genetically Free set up a district based on their gene pool of choice, a law enforcing genetic segregation would make it illegal for someone of a different gene pool to move in or buy the property and change the genetic requirement, no matter how charismatic he is or how much money he throws at the property owner, regardless of whether or not it would mean the property owner being able to put his kid through college or pay for a medical procedure or whatever.

Would that help or hurt Genetic Freedom?

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[QUOTE=holmes]
What does a “pure blooded” Swede or African look like?**

The problem here is that you assume I’m on a different planet than you are. Your Media Matrix programming is kicking in and a key word “pure blooded” has set off your programming - some on here are likely fully away of what I’m talking about but they’ll not breath a world…

You do know that Africa is a big place and all Africans don’t look alike…right?

Yes… yawn…
How do you determine what a ‘pure’ blooded African looks like and how long does one have to be in Sweden before they get to be “pure”?

I didn’t start this discussion… yawn… I was using the example provided, BY YOU, as best I could and the argument is still completely accurate. Pure blooded simply refers to those people who have populated sweden for some stabilized period of time historically - not this century. In Africa, of course we are referring to black africans and not the northern semitic or “white” ones. So there will absolutely be, regardless of what you dream up, differences in genetic phenotypes as probability trends. That’s just plain that. Come into the real world friend. Truth is nice when you just plain accept it. I mentioned that the African group was too broad. You are biased and prejudiced against everything I say. So what’s the point.
As for the rest of your prediction, I must confess I was a little disappointed. I was hoping for some nice charts and graphs, telling me whether or not the child would have fast or slow twitch leg muscles or the size of the brain, width of the nose or a nice color wheel predicting the amount of melanin…I mean really. And where’s the penis or labia size data at?

All of that could be analyzed, sure. But you’d have to be more specific, exactly specific as to the genetics of the two people you are trying to determine offspring on. We don’t yet have the ability to do that easily. It still takes way too long to sequence a human genome and we still just barely know what all the genes do.
You’ve let me down. When you kept comparing dolphins to humans on the genetic level…i assumed you would be able to give me specific details of human genetic differences, the way you could tell a dolphin wasn’t a human…

You are strange
You prediction is well, worthless…Let’s forget that it falls apart went talking about “unpure” humans.

Further proof that you’ve been brainwashed by the word “pure.” It’s a relative term that is accurate in the use I made. That word has been destroyed for you by the Media Matrix. So sorry.
It’s no different than predicting that a pregnant woman has a fifty-fifty chance of having boy. C’mon, " The skin color of the kid will be some blended color, sometimes lighter and sometimes darker…" That’s a prediction?
Yes, that is approximately what will happen. That’s the best I can do and you can do no better or different. Again, you are very strange.
How about this, “The kid will have 10 fingers and 10 toes, sometimes bigger, sometimes smaller…” How I’m doing?

No, 10 fingers is pretty much a given for humans accept in rare cases. So that is not a prediction it’s a known. The size of the fingers would certainly be a prediction and they would be just as you said.
Blended color…Hell I can say that about any couple having a baby…you do know that there’s great variation in complexion in the “white” race don’t you?

Dohhh, duhhhh… I don’t know… duuuu… You are very, very strange. You are regurgitating your programming nicely. Hopefully I can free you from your own mind.
You know greater variation within a group, than outside it…and all that jazz?

based on five human genomes that have been sequenced… let’s base all of reality upon that. I’ve already disarmed that particular factoid, if it even is a fact. Gentic Science is in it’s infancy.
BTW do you have a logo yet?

No

This is incredibly easy:

Everything influences cultural development. It is your religion to simply believe that Genetics play no role. It is your religion - which means nothing I say will have any affect upon anything you believe. I canot convince Christians that Jesus was just a man. The same way I can not convince you that Genetics play even one little drop of a role in cultural development - it’s your religion.

I don’t try to convince Christians that Jesus was just a man, and I don’t plan to waste my life on people with your mindset who believe that genetics play no role in cultural development. You will, on the other hand, follow the mainstream. For those who are not brainwashed by this particular “one human genetic mass” religion, and are more open minded to reality, one by one they will become more educated and more and more wiser people will walk the Earth… then when it becomes “chic” to believe in Genetici Freedom, you’ll just do it.

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[QUOTE=zwaldd]
OK, once the Genetically Free set up a district based on their gene pool of choice, a law enforcing genetic segregation would make it illegal for someone of a different gene pool to move in or buy the property and change the genetic requirement, no matter how charismatic he is or how much money he throws at the property owner, regardless of whether or not it would mean the property owner being able to put his kid through college or pay for a medical procedure or whatever.

Would that help or hurt Genetic Freedom?**
Ah, now we are talking and it is very, very easy to make you understand. It would definately HURT genetic freedom. No law can tell any local group who they can or cannot accept into their community. That’s not up to you or me it is up to the sum total of the individual decisions in that community. So the law you proposed is completely contrary to genetic freedom.

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[QUOTE=castaway]
The law needs to be neutral towards Genetic Freedom via proximity. Currently the law enforces genetic homogenization. **

This should have said:

The law needs to be neutral towards Genetic Freedom. Currently the law enforces genetic homogenization via proximity.
the “via proximity” was inserted in the wrong place the first time…

The law I described doesn’t tell a group who they can or can’t accept. The law prevents the property owner from overriding the wishes of the group for his own benefit.

Does that help or hurt Genetic Freedom?

Translated to English:

*They will too believe it! Will! Will! Will! I’m right (even when I am incoherent) and you will all bow before my brilliance! They laughed when I sat down at the keyboard, but . . . .

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!! I’ll show you all! Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . *

The example, as now clarified, does not hurt or help genetic freedom. It is genetic freedom as I’ve explained it. The proximity rule must be heeded for genetic freedom for groups to exist.

So we have a five x five mile squre and this guy owns ten acres right in the center of it. Obviously the people in the 5 x 5 square would have to agree to let the individual property owner sell to whomever. They live together as a cohesive group. They help each other, care for each other in basic ways etc… all the good adjectives. If the guy on the 10 acres decides he no longer wants to be part of the group, he has three choices. 1. keep living there and deal with it. 2. move out. 3. Gather some others in the group that are unhappy as well, and spawn off some of the land to form their own group with their own genetic choices.