Genetic Freedom

Great Debates
161

I notice how you keep deleting the questions I ask you. That’s kinda funny. I mean, if it weren’t so sad.

Actually, yes, I would point a gun at you if you tried to overthrow our government, destroy individual rights, and tell me where I can and can’t live, just like you would point a gun at me if I brought my dirty brown blood within 20 miles of you.

Once again, no one is oppressing you. Go ahead and buy some private land and do what you like on it. Your problem is that you expect everyone to eventually think like you do. You are no better than the most fundamental “cultists.”

162

But your scenario is a straw man. The Amish, today, are practicing the exact “genetic freedom” that you keep going on about without the need to establish segregated regions*. I lived next door to an Amish farmer for several years in the third largest Amish community in the world. They are quite successful in practicing endogamous marriage without any need for the physical separation (i.e. segregation) that you keep insisting on (and for which you are willing to violate the rights of existing property owners to establish–an act that the Amish have chosen to not impose on their neighbors).

  • I use segregate in the sense of the first definition and the fact that you choose to use it only in sense #2 is not my problem. On the other hand, every declaration you have made regarding the way to achieve your “separation” matches definition #2. Again, your refusal to see the actual results of your intended actions is not my problem as long as you do not attempt to destroy this nation with your attacks on peoples whom you want to avoid.
    While we are on the subject of your misunderstanding of the English language:

racism never meant the study of different ethnic groups. The word was coined (in 1935 in French and imported to English in 1937 with the same meaning) to indicate the belief that “race” is the primary determinant of human characteristics and that some “races” are superior to others. The earlier word racialism was also coined (1905?) to indicate the pretended superiority of one group over another based on imaginary “racial” characteristics. Biological research has continued to provide increasing evidence that the perceived “races” of the nineteenth century ethnologists do not exist except as shorthand for wide varieties of people with fairly shallow similarities in appearance, so “studying” races is a non-scientific endeavor as there is nothing there to study. There are certainly biological populations in the world with traits, such as disease resistance or susceptibility, that can be studied, but none of those populations are large enough or coherent enough to justify the eighteenth century term “race” that was erroneously bestowed upon various groups. And the study of those characteristics is continuing. In fact, the scientist who has done the most work to debunk the false notion of “race” is one of the leading proponents of continuing and expanding the study of populations and how they have arisen and interacted.

Does it never bother you that so much of your tirade is based on simple ignorance of so many facts? You misunderstand and misuse words. You appear to be unaware of history. You clearly have only the most tenuous grasp of biology. Yet your whole rant requires a firm comprehension of all the information that you lack.

163

I meant to add something meaningful and constructive to this discussion, but I’m stuck in the Media Matrix.

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[QUOTE=tomndebb]
But your scenario is a straw man. The Amish, today, are practicing the exact “genetic freedom” that you keep going on about without the need to establish segregated regions*. I lived next door to an Amish farmer for several years in the third largest Amish community in the world. They are quite successful in practicing endogamous marriage without any need for the physical separation (i.e. segregation) that you keep insisting on**

The proximity rule and media rule affect population trends. Any group could practice Genetic Freedom without heeding the proximity rule, if they have proper control over the education of their kids… the Amish do because they don’t pump todays mass media into their kids minds.

** (and for which you are willing to violate the rights of existing property owners to establish–an act that the Amish have chosen to not impose on their neighbors).**

Towards the goal of creating balance between individual freedom and group freedom, obviously.
I use segregate in the sense of the first definition and the fact that you choose to use it only in sense #2 is not my problem.

All that matters is how others perceive the word. If you think that most other people perceive the word as merely definition 1 or 3, you’d be wrong. Our minds perceive words according to how we’ve learned that word. Most people, via media and educational outlets, have learned the word segregation to mean #2. Mainstream population does not think carefully and discriminate on meanings of words.
On the other hand, every declaration you have made regarding the way to achieve your “separation” matches definition #2.

This is a perception distortion within your mind…
Again, your refusal to see the actual results of your intended actions is not my problem as long as you do not attempt to destroy this nation with your attacks on peoples whom you want to avoid.

You are very distorted… this is caused by the Media Matrix.
While we are on the subject of your misunderstanding of the English language: racism never meant the study of different ethnic groups. The word was coined (in 1935 in French and imported to English in 1937 with the same meaning) to indicate the belief that “race” is the primary determinant of human characteristics and that some “races” are superior to others. The earlier word racialism was also coined (1905?) to indicate the pretended superiority of one group over another based on imaginary “racial” characteristics.

I assumed that racism had the former meaning of simply studying the differences between the differences races and ethnic groups… I’ll yield to you but I can’t find any references anywhere on the internet. This is a trivial matter and doesn’t affect anything else I’ve said.
Biological research has continued to provide increasing evidence that the perceived “races” of the nineteenth century ethnologists do not exist except as shorthand for wide varieties of people with fairly shallow similarities in appearance

Genetic life branches. This is not something to fear… it’s called Genetic population diversity.

I would suggest you educate yourself. www.humannature.com

so “studying” races is a non-scientific endeavor as there is nothing there to study.

It takes a very, very shallow mind to come to that conclusion… I guess there is no such thing is diversity then, hey?
There are certainly biological populations in the world with traits, such as disease resistance or susceptibility, that can be studied, but none of those populations are large enough or coherent enough to justify the eighteenth century term “race” that was erroneously bestowed upon various groups.

It’s semantics… move on. You are completely correct that the word race, and the groups that were grouped as races were FAR TOO BROAD… Blacks, Whites, Orientals, Semitics, American Indians - those were the main groups of the past, and those groups were way too broad, obviously. I use the term ethnic group to describe different human populations. I’ve just disarmed your entire argument… done. I’ve just proven that you suffer from perception distortions of things I say because nothing I’ve said upon these boards, attempted to corroborate ancient racist ideology.
And the study of those characteristics is continuing. In fact, the scientist who has done the most work to debunk the false notion of “race” is one of the leading proponents of continuing and expanding the study of populations and how they have arisen and interacted.

He and others will start studying genetic differences between various ethnic groups… that is the future.
Does it never bother you that so much of your tirade is based on simple ignorance of so many facts?

Your ignorance bothers me… accept the historic definition of the word racism which I assumed was something that it likely isn’t - that’s a trivial thing.
You appear to be unaware of history.

Huh?

You clearly have only the most tenuous grasp of biology.

It’s Genetics… Biology is the result of genetics. I’m quite certain I understand genetic life better than you do.
Yet your whole rant requires a firm comprehension of all the information that you lack.

It’s difficult dealing with such deep ignorance as yours… but I realize that you are sick and I am the cure.

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[QUOTE=Zagadka]
I notice how you keep deleting the questions I ask you. That’s kinda funny. I mean, if it weren’t so sad.**

When you

[quote ]
something, if I reply to you, what was
[quoted ]
does not show up in the reply box… I’ve just adopted a policy of bolding things rather than quoting them because the quote function on these boards is flawed.
Actually, yes, I would point a gun at you if you tried to overthrow our government, destroy individual rights, and tell me where I can and can’t live, just like you would point a gun at me if I brought my dirty brown blood within 20 miles of you.

You are very, very sick minded… your thought distortions or perception distortions are extreme so attempting to discuss with your further is pointless.
**Once again, no one is oppressing you. **

I don’t think I ever said anybody was oppressing me… that word is quite harsh. Suppressing is what is occurring. This suppression is caused by ignorance of Genetic Freedom as I have defined it. Your ignorance is deep, I will not be able to cure you during this thread… done.
Go ahead and buy some private land and do what you like on it. Your problem is that you expect everyone to eventually think like you do. You are no better than the most fundamental "cultists."

I expect you to eventually not be ignorant of the concept of Genetic Freedom. Some day, like a light bulb, you will get it. Mabye not today, mabye not in a year… mabye it won’t be for ten years. But if you continue to expand your mind you will actually get it. It is fundamental to human existance and doesn’t require any cult activities or beliefs to understand. In fact, those people who walk the earth thinking “we’re all equal” are following a cult ideology. It is not required that you “think like me” to understand the concept of Genetic Freedom. It is a concept that simply exists and you either comprehend it or you don’t.

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[QUOTE=tomndebb]

Sorry, it appears to me that you are the one trapped in some “matrix” of imagined reality bounded by paranoia and conspiracy theories. You even believe that whole groups of people are deliberately trying to outbreed other people.
Of all the people I know, not one has ever mentioned a deliberate effort to increase their race/ethnicity/“genetic stock” when deciding to have children. I have seen a couiple of whacko WNs on shows like Jerry Springer’s make the claim that they were going to “breed” for the “white race,” and I am sure that there are nutjobs in other ethnic communities that feel the same. However, I doubt that any group is driven by the lunatic fringe and no sane white, black, brown, or chartreuse person in my experience has ever made a similar claim. The notion that whole groups within society have this master breeding plan that only such cognoscenti as yourself (and not even the breeding groups!) recognize is just silly–as is the rest of your diatribe.

I suspect that we are probably not doing you any good by continuing to enable your fantasy by treating it as worthy of refutation.**
This diatribe, that you just wrote, is based on some perception distortion of what I said - but I’m sure it made you feel good.

I said that democracies with multiple ethnic groups will either blend together into a single uniform looking ethnic group, or different elements will attempt to outpopulate the others so they can get into public office. This is what is occuring and has been occuring throughout history. If you wish to claim that it “just happens” I don’t care. I didn’t suggest how it happens I’m simply stating what is happening. So you should apologize for your tirade at this time… though, since you are caught in the Media Matrix I fully expect you to continue having perception distortions.

Note: I don’t require you to pat me on the back for me to “feel good.”

Your ignorance, makes me giggle. I have fun playing with small minds such as yours. It humors me. I do realize that I’m in a world of ignorance and the essence of that ignorance is not communicating properly. If you make a mistake you should admit it and move on, just like I did regarding the historic meaning of the word racism.

167

Yea, you’re such a genius that you can’t figure out how to quote right, and make sweeping claims about social structures you clearly understand nothing about.

Excuse me, I have to get right back on the plan for us Hispanics to try to outpopulate the rest of the country, or my jefe will get angry.

168

oops. I mistakenly used the word oppress on a post way above regarding genetic freedom… should have been suppressed.

However, when we really think about it. If 10,000 people decided they wanted to excercise their right to genetic freedom in some city, the government would point a gun at them and say no… when you point a gun that is oppression and, thusly, the government would be oppressing genetic freedom. The small minds here will immediatly think that those who want genetic freedom are going to ethnicly cleanse out the “undesirables.” First, let’s assume that the community is already ethnically homogeneous - thus all they would have to do is deny other ethnic groups from buying land in their community.

Next, let’s assume that 10% of the population there is some other ethnic group. With education and time, attrition would eventually ethnically homogenize the community. The 10% would eventually move out smiling because they understand and respect Genetic Freedom.

You all have no idea how ignorant you are… the concept of Genetic Freedom is like a warm, warm blanket of understanding and reason to those of us who pull our heads out of our asses long enough to comprehend it.

Most of you are closed minded, hateful, bigots. Of course your bigotry is aimed at intelligent white males - not to be confused with intelligent Jewish males. Though some Jewish males are a high percentage of some white ethnic group with a bit of semitic “flavor” added in. I expect that any Jews who are pure white are converts. I’ve heard of the “khazars” but given where they were from, historically, they could have been a white/semitic mixture themselves. We could easily do genetic tests today and database all this info such that there is no longer any confusion regarding it.

Let us never forget, Jews created Ancient Christianity that controls the most powerful elements of “white people” today. So “white people” today are all brainwashed by a Jewish written ideology. This is an indisputable fact.

I have no idea who, precisly, “rules the world,” how could I possibly know. But I believe that it’s a simple combination of the ancient Jews with the ancient Aryans - they’ve blended genetically, and dominate the worlds policies in all important positions of power. The future is what they choose it to be… the rest of us are just along for the ride on the bottom part of the pyramid as workers or buffer management.

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[QUOTE=Zagadka]
Yea, you’re such a genius that you can’t figure out how to quote right, **

It’s probably because I’m not an official member and am on the 30 day trial… some features are not available to me…

170

Yea, I bet that’s it, because none of the guests can quote. O_o

171

It’s obvious you don’t have any respect for my intellect… everything that I think is based on the fundamental fact that life, upon planet earth, is genetic based. There may be some sort of soul that also interacts with genetics and that is quite beyond our current comprehension.

Given that life is gentics (this assumes you can comprehend that…), we then can think in terms of individuals and groups of individuals and decide what freedoms should exist.

This is what you call fantasy… whether you admit it, or not, the only one fantasizing here, is you. I don’t know that you specifically have an agenda and it’s certainly likely that you are just plain ignorant. Ignorance is a common condition upon planet Earth.

Perhaps you confuse “fantasy” with “something you and all your friends don’t like to think about.” The world is a bigger place than you and the many that “think like you.” You certainly have the option of suppression, and then, if necessary oppression. Having the mindless mob on your side gives you that luxury. Ignorace is painful - but enlightenment generally wins in the end. Unfortunately there is usually a lot of killing along the way - hopefully populations can skip that particular phase this time by communicating clearly and properly… something that you are currently doing your best to cut off.

172

I see the racists’ organized attempt to convert followers with ‘racist logic’ is not working. Time to regroup and develop another plan, guys.

173

Actually, you responded to my destreuction of your false claim that racism ever meant “the study of races” with another wild diatribe of your perception of reality. Given that my correction of your false etymology of racism was accurate, (try a library and use the Oxford English Dictionary, not everything is on the internet, yet), the rest of your spiel was irrelevant polemic that did nothing to “disarm” my correction of your error.

.

No, what I call fantasy is the notion that there already exist coherent groups of genetically distinct people that have some “right” to establish a homeland by dispossessing others simply to maintain their separateness. I further note that all the people who believe in this “genetic separation” have wildly different ideas of who will be allowed to join their little enclaves. When I point out a group that is successfully doing that without dispossessing others, you whine that their success is due to their control of education without putting forth any reason why your little groups could not control their education. Basically, unless you are going to forbid radios and TVs throughout your little homeland and you are going to put a serious filter on the internet, (or, more likely, simply deny it to your children) even your little segregated homeland is going to see the same media. (Are you going to forbid your denizens from getting sattelite TV? Can you guarantee that you can find a distant locale that cannot bring in AM radio every evening? )

Given that I do not believe that you can find a real group interested in “genetic separation” who can even agree upon who gets to be a member*[sup]1[/sup], that there is no way to establish youir homelands without violence (even if it is “merely” evicting current owners)*[sup]2[/sup], and that there is no legitimate way to keep your children away from “corrupting” media that is not already available to you without creating your homelands, I do, indeed, believe that your ideas are a fantasy.

(Not to mention, of course, that the tiny population that would actually elect to segregate themselves in that way would probably become too inbred to survive pretty quickly–not that theree is anything wrong with that.)

*[sup]1[/sup] I defy you to show me any group that can actually agree on their membership rolls–with concrete examples of how they would establish the rules.

*[sup]2[/sup] I defy you to show me any way to establish your homeland without stealing land. If you claim that you have a “right” based on “genetic diversity” then I am going to ask why a group could not do the same thing, based on religious or economic belief. Why should your belief trump theirs?

174

How am I attempting to “cut off” communication? I have not called for your shunning or banning. I have made no move to silence you. I have actually engaged you in discussion (if only to point out the errors you hold so dearly).

175

Actually, yes, I would point a gun at you if you tried to overthrow our government, destroy individual rights, and tell me where I can and can’t live, just like you would point a gun at me if I brought my dirty brown blood within 20 miles of you.

This is not a rational statement you made:

  1. When did I suggest overthrowing the government?

  2. When did I suggest destroying individual rights. I have suggested that in order for all of us to have full individual rights, the right to gather together into groups must not be destroyed… which is what you support the destruction of. Groups are nothing more than the sum of thousands of individual decisions, so you, pointing a gun at a group that wishes to have genetic freedom in a community are destroying individual rights, in a violent way. There is nothing you can do other than to say something that is a lie or irrational to get past this fundamental point of group freedom and individual freedom. The statement you have made here, and other places proves how irrational you are.

  3. Apparently, if others are expressing their fundamental right to genetic freedom, you feel this somehow represses your right to “live whereever you want to live.” The question is simple: Why would you want to trample another individuals right to Genetic Freedom? Again, experience tells me you will not answer that directly but rather you will go off and rant about something irrational.

  4. Now you are showing how delusional your thinking really is. That you think I want to shoot you shows how paranoid you are - actually I don’t think you believe this, but you are just saying it because it makes you feel good and you could care less about this conversation.

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[QUOTE=tomndebb]
How am I attempting to “cut off” communication?**

  1. By referring to me as a conspiracy theorist…
  2. By mis-representing things I say to suggest I don’t know what I’m talking about.
  3. You said: “I suspect that we are probably not doing you any good by continuing to enable your fantasy by treating it as worthy of refutation.” Think about it… think about the substance of what you just said. It’s really not that difficult to see the trend you are setting to “cut off communication.”
    **I have not called for your shunning or banning. I have made no move to silence you. **

That is a different type of “cut off communication.”
I have actually engaged you in discussion (if only to point out the errors you hold so dearly).

You’ve engaged in bashing… You were likely correct regarding the historical definition of racism. Beyond that… the things you said were not rational because they were based on distorted perceptions of things I typed.

177

That whole bit about changing our Constitution to fit your segregationist scheme and applying a total world government to enforce the segregation of ethnic populations? OK, it is more an overthrow of society than government, but it is nonetheless.

If someone wanted to add a Constitutional ammendment to legalize slavery, you bet your white ass I would rebel to oppose it.

I dunno, that whole forcing people into segregated living conditions, ghettozation of entire populations, population relocation thing?

Simple. Groups don’t have rights. Individuals have rights.

Shoot, lock up in a concentration camp, same difference.

BTW, Mr. Genius, the phrase is “could not care less.” To say I could care less means that I actually care.

Your plan is short-sighted, narrowminded, and generally stupid. It is based on arbitrary racism and has no appreciation for social structures, economics, government, and individual rights. You assume that segregating the population will lead to world peace and happiness, with no consideration for what causes conflict within society or comprehension of how civil groups interact with each other. You have presented no evidence of even planning for your movement, other than racist ideology and conspiracy theory.

So yes, if you tried to replace my government with a segregationist NWO, I would damn well revolt.

178

You are.

You don’t.

You can only talk to a psychotic about his wet dreams for so long before he is just fanatically repeating himself.

My dear, that is because the things you say are based on distorted perceptions in your crazy little mind.

179

**Castaway: I use the term ethnic group to describe different human populations. I’ve just disarmed your entire argument… done. I’ve just proven that you suffer from perception distortions of things I say because nothing I’ve said upon these boards, attempted to corroborate ancient racist ideology. **

**Tomndebb: Actually, you responded to my destreuction of your false claim that racism ever meant “the study of races” with another wild diatribe of your perception of reality. Given that my correction of your false etymology of racism was accurate, (try a library and use the Oxford English Dictionary, not everything is on the internet, yet), the rest of your spiel was irrelevant polemic that did nothing to “disarm” my correction of your error. **

Again, major, major perception distortions on your part. The little semantics game regarding the word “racism” was a simple trivial nothing. Done. My disarming of your argument had to do with precisely what I say above… but your wires are getting crossed, probably because of how I write so I don’t blame you completely - I said “nothing I’ve said upon these boards, attempted to corroborate ancient racist ideology.” That is how I disarmed much of the nonsense you typed in my direction. Are you really not able to get that? It’s not that hard to understand.
**Castaway: Given that life is gentics (this assumes you can comprehend that…), we then can think in terms of individuals and groups of individuals and decide what freedoms should exist. This is what you call fantasy… **

Tomndebb: No, what I call fantasy is the notion that there already exist coherent groups of genetically distinct people that have some “right” to establish a homeland by dispossessing others simply to maintain their separateness.

This simply means that you are delusional, because the human race has already branched. Perhaps 100,000 years ago, whenever the most recent mutational event took place producing a superior genetic life form, the human race began a process of branching to all the lands of earth. The precise details of this are obviously not as simple as I just laid out but I’m just making the point regarding branching.

It does not matter that “genetic variation between the races is smaller than genetic variation within the races.” For two reasons:

  1. The races, as we’ve already discussed, are too broad of a category and so, given that, it really wouldn’t be a surprise to me that “genetic variation between the races is smaller than genetic variation within the races.” However, this doesn’t mean the science on that is done. We are still in the infancy of genetic science and broad conclusions like the one just mentioned cannot be reliably made yet. If you aren’t aware that their is a “liberal” agenda to spin genetic science to the “all one human genetic mass” tyranny, go here http://human-nature.com . (I gave the wrong link before).

  2. To the level of tribe or ethnic group, the genetic variation is what it is, and that is the level of “genetic freedom” that I am talking about. No matter how much you wish that phenotypic probability differences don’t exist among the various ethnic groups of the word, they do. They are as real as life itself. It does not matter how different the groups are. We could all be clones and the next generation would produce people with genetic variation - that world would have every right to pursue genetic freedom. You can suppress it and point a gun at them to force them to all be part of “the one human mass.” But eventually freedom wins against ignorance of that kind.
    I further note that all the people who believe in this “genetic separation” have wildly different ideas of who will be allowed to join their little enclaves.

It’s Genetic Freedom… Genetic segregation would be more accurate than “Genetic separation” if people perceive definition #1 or #3 as I listed far above (which they don’t). We are all already genetically separated by default. You don’t decide who Genetically free groups allow in, they do. That’s the freedom. Currently you wish to enforce “The one human genetic mass” ideology, as if that is somehow freedom for intelligent genetic life. Think about a branching tree… life branches, it’s nothing to fear. But I do understand why you fear it.
When I point out a group that is successfully doing that without dispossessing others, you whine that their success is due to their control of education without putting forth any reason why your little groups could not control their education.

I didn’t whine, I’m just pointing out the facts… If a coherent ethnic group lives in a 3 x 3 mile community, why would you want to move into it? Why would you want laws to support the notion that anybody can enter into, and alter that communities free expression of culture and Genetic Freedom? You are on the side of oppression here… not me.
Basically, unless you are going to forbid radios and TVs throughout your little homeland and you are going to put a serious filter on the internet, (or, more likely, simply deny it to your children) even your little segregated homeland is going to see the same media. (Are you going to forbid your denizens from getting sattelite TV? Can you guarantee that you can find a distant locale that cannot bring in AM radio every evening? )

Different ethnic groups deserve to own and control their own media, unless they delegate that to others who responsibly do it.
Given that I do not believe that you can find a real group interested in “genetic separation” who can even agree upon who gets to be a member*

Many such groups already exist. Some are extremist and would not deserve the right to genetic freedom till they altered their mindset. The Japanese are hardly extremists. Black communities in philadelphia who have expressed interest in having their own “local communities” are not extremists. Etc… etc… If people genuinely don’t want this freedom, fine. But we all need to be taught about it - something that isn’t done today.
1, that there is no way to establish youir homelands without violence (even if it is “merely” evicting current owners)*

More delusions and perception distortions from your mind. It is accomplished via natural attrition and mutual respect.
2, and that there is no legitimate way to keep your children away from “corrupting” media that is not already available to you without creating your homelands, I do, indeed, believe that your ideas are a fantasy.

As I stated already, ethnic groups deserve to own and control their own media outlets unless they delegate to others… naturally.
(Not to mention, of course, that the tiny population that would actually elect to segregate themselves in that way would probably become too inbred to survive pretty quickly–not that theree is anything wrong with that.)

You don’t have a firm grasp of genetics… deleterious mutations can easily be removed from populations via intelligent selection. Some communities of Jews were able to eliminate Tay-Sacks disease using such intelligent reproductive trends.

*1 I defy you to show me any group that can actually agree on their membership rolls–with concrete examples of how they would establish the rules.

Give it a few more years and perhaps even decades… this concept is in it’s infancy.
*2 I defy you to show me any way to establish your homeland without stealing land.

The essay explains that… no problem.
If you claim that you have a “right” based on “genetic diversity” then I am going to ask why a group could not do the same thing, based on religious or economic belief. Why should your belief trump theirs?

Genetics are the first, most fundamental factor of “what we are.” If we can gather together into our religious groups etc… without promoting violence and hatred of other groups, then we could do that as well… I have no problem with that under the conditions I mentioned. I certainly don’t want my kids to be brainwahsed by Christianity…

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[QUOTE=Zagadka]
You can only talk to a psychotic about his wet dreams for so long before he is just fanatically repeating himself.**

You are an excellent example of exactly this phenomenon.