OK, great.
Now that I’ve got a look at it, please explain again how it is that you were confused?
Was it the presence of ALE or the presence of CARS in the Opening post that confused you?
And, I’m sure you’d love a counter-claim, especially if the Scum have a strongman.
It’s a shame you have such an important role and yet you chose to screw up your postings in exactly the same way as an inattentive third-party player would have done.
Astral, can you also describe how that PM led you to believe that there were 3rd parties?
If anything, the PM as described would lead me to believe that there are not third parties.
Or were there PMs between you and Red that clarified them and why haven’t you posted those as well?
This is a closed game. We have no particular evidence a detective exists.
Here you were ‘guessing’ there were 3rd party who would not communicate.
Also, here you seem to think the 3rd party members are a part of the ALE. Which your PM indicates you can detect. Yet you’re a weak detective who cannot detect them.
That’s enough for me
Vote: Astral
[QUOTE=Red Skeezix]
[QUOTE=Astral Rejection]
[QUOTE=Red Skeezix]
Name: R. Daneel Olivaw
Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel
Role: Weak Cop
Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords
Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil.
Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds like “regular” cop. What are the limitations?
[/QUOTE]
You can only determine if a player is a member of the Associated League of Evil or not. A full cop investigates a player and determines their alignment.
[/QUOTE]
That’s my discussion with Red.
Okay, one: “weak cop” is not likely to be counter-claimed. There could be five detectives in this game hypothetically, none of whom have precisely the same role as your claim and none of whom would therefore be likely to counter.
Two: “what you did” would presumably be: you screwed up and are now trying to cover your exposed rear end in the most consistent way possible.
Three: Your claim is difficult-to-impossible for any third party role I’ve ever heard of around here to keep up with indefinitely, and most third parties do need to survive indefinitely. I also still don’t really see your initial mistake as being more likely to come from scum than from town. That the claim “fits” scum so well might just be a coincidence. But it might not, you know?
Vote Special Ed.
It blows my mind you would vote for the claimed detective on day 1, with no counter-claims, without even waiting for everyone to check in, without remembering that I didn’t check my PM last night and couldn’t remember the factions names, without remembering that I was trying to “prove” the existence of third parties for the town’s benefit, without explaining why I would do this as scum, without explaining why I would have spoken up at all if I had something to hide.
Respond to Ed’s point.
Based on that discussion, if I thought that ALE included third parties, (which, unless my timeline is funky, I believe you did at this point.) I’d think I WOULD be able to identify all threats to town.
Haven’t I been responding all last night and today? I talked to Red when role PMs went out. A day later, while taking a five minute break from class, I got confused on what team name was what, and thought I had found a way to explain what I had learned from Red without revealing my role. Since I forgot the team names, *and I thought Slumdwelling Raftlords were the scum team," I thought the new term (Associated League of Evil) was my chance to do so.
At this point, just vote to lynch me if you don’t believe me.
Confirming. Finally! the streak is broken and I’m neither scum nor vanilla. It’s good to be back. 
Sorry for being late, but I don’t play on weekends and was on bed rest yesterday. Also, I’m not going to be around as much this game, but I’ll try to check in at least once a weekday. By the way, ending the Day on a Monday holiday means my last contribution for the Day is going to be on Friday.
Personally, I do not use the phrase “PFK” because I always play for keeps and believe everyone else should as well. Why play a competitive game if you don’t want to win?
I prefer “inclusive third party” for those with whose win conditions do not exclude others from winning, and “exclusive third party” for those whose do.
In one of my recent games as scum, the moderator did not tell scum who their comrades were in the role PM and we were not allowed to talk during the Day, so we effectively didn’t know who the other scum were until Day Two. It’s actually a nice bonus to the scum, since they do not have any perfect information to slip.
Are you some sort of socialist? Slumlords are the upstanding members of our community who extract the maximum amount of rent from optimally maintained properties. Without them, our real estate investments would surely decrease in value.
I think this analysis is spot-on, but the conclusion is wrong. Unless we have strong indications that a third party has a non-exclusive win condition, we must assume that them winning will be a loss for us. Remember, we win when all threats are removed, not when all scum are lynched. Thus, all third parties must be eliminated, unless there’s reliable info to the contrary.
However, once could make a case that our Vigilante (that is, a town player who can kill at Night, possibly with some restrictions) should get the first shot at any third parties. Lynching really is best used for scum. Therefore, I suggest we not lynch Astral ToDay, and instead lynch them ToMorrow, if they are still alive.
No, third parties need to be dealt with while the town has mislynches available to do it with. Closer to end game, when the number of mislynches is likely to be lower, we need to be focusing on lynching scum, period.
Interesting. Why should we expect a counter claim? A complete alignment investigator would not counter-claim you, because it’s a different role.
This is a mostly safe claim of convenience. Normally, I would advocate lynching. However, since we can potentially get the identities of scum, I suggest keep Astral alive for a few Days. If they have not given us a scum by then, we should lynch them.
I will vote for Astral on Day Four unless they’ve produced a scum to lynch. That’ll give them three Nights.
Huh? A weak investigation power is perfect for a third party–useful enough for town to think twice about lynching, not powerful enough to upset the balance too much. Agreed about trivial for scum to fake.
You would really, honestly normally advocate lynching a claimed town detective on Day 1, with no counter-claim on the table?
For everyone who thinks this is reasonable: how many games have you played here on the Dope with multiple detectives? One, maybe? TI’m fairly certain every game I’ve played has had a single cop. One. That would be me, in this particular game.
My weakness implies there are third parties. Perhaps the scum team doesn’t have a godfather, to balance my weakness? I don’t know. Maybe there really is another detective, but I’d consider it unlikely, since two detectives would be really pretty overpowered.
So, once again, I have to ask: which is more likely? That a scum Astral spoke up about third parties for no reason whatsoever, and got confused about the team names? Or that a town Astral saw that he had an awesome power and raced back to the forums, and then got confused about the team names during a five-minute break from class?
Which is really, honestly, more likely?
Of course, not that it really matters. If the scum have a roleblocker, which most large-game scum teams do, I’m useless anyway. So I’ll have exactly no way to prove my powers at this point.
I guess we’ll see toMorrow.
One more thing, Astral. Explain how this:
(clarified in the next post that “PM” means “wincon”)
is consistent with your mistake about CARS and ALE. The mistake assumes you have forgotten your role PM almost entirely. The comment there necessitates that you do remember your wincon.
LOL.
My sticking point is the lack of precedent and lack of imagination as regards a plausible wincon for such a role. “Investigate at least two scum and two town and you fly off the winner”?
Ironically I just recently had a very non-standard third party role myself, but I’ve never seen anything remotely similar around here. Even the third-party-coalition game over on Idlemafia didn’t try to shoehorn in a 3rd party investigator, as much as it would have helped. (Mahaloth, you totally should have been one of us.)
The answer to that, as to all questions about “what kind of fucked-up role would that be?” is Screamers Mafia, specifically Alka Seltzer’s role.
Are you contrary just to be contrarian? C’mon, man, tell the truth.
I certainly couldn’t have just remembered mine was longer.
Not the same thing; his theft power led logically to his win condition. People were even suspecting exactly what it was ahead of time, right down to guessing (correctly) that he was not win-stealing.
Where are you at right now on Astral, Tom?