Something is not quite right about** gnarlycharlie’s** posts. I don’t really know what it is but he voted for Astral when he was dared to and then hasn’t really said much more.
Vote Gnarlycharlie
I could be wrong about my vote but…
He hasn’t really said anything about anyone else, except when he mentions that Astral and** Mahaloth** could be friends He seems more interested in arguing with Astral. As I said, I could be wrong but it just feels funny to me.
So, just plowed through the thread & picked up a few things to comment on:
I disagree; if another player pops up with a relatively unlimited alignment-investigation role, I will assume that either he/she or Astral are lying, unless we get some indication that the Scum team is correspondingly over-loaded with power roles.
I would caution against reading too much into the character name. The moderator will certainly have put in place a mechanism to allow the Scum to avoid being caught out by a simple mass claim of character names. My guess, based on the opening color, is that either everyone on both sides has a “heroic” name from genre fiction, or that there is a mix of good and evil on both sides. (The basis here is that we got zapped by magic glowy lights only after being turned back from the door; my theory is that the magic glowy lights turned us into heroes from genre fiction.) It’s also possible that if the Scum team all has villain names, the mod has provided them with a safe set of names & universes to draw on for fake claims.
This strikes me as silly; if action was possible on Night Zero, I would have expected a public announcement. (Much like if multiple votes were allowed.)
Again, I disagree; multiple cops, each of whom could investigate once a night and tell Scum from not-Scum, would be incredibly powerful. If another Cop appears on the scene, I for one will assume one of the two is lying.
As I said before, I would expect a fake-claiming Scum to have either gone full Cop or come up with a more serious weakness, and a fake-claiming third party to have come up with a different claim altogether.
I find a third-party investigator pretty implausible on the face of it; IMO Occam’s razor cuts in the direction of Astral making an epic brain-fart. And if he is a third-party survivor investigator, I totally want him investigating scum anyway.
Oh, and at the moment, the thing that stands out for me as scummy is fubbleskag’s reversal from “I believe Astral” to voting for him once something mechanical came to light.
vote fubbleskag
In fact, I would expect a standard cop to not counter-claim; it can always wait for Day 2 or 3, with bonus investigation results.
Thinking about it in the shower, I realized that a full Cop claim wouldn’t have given scum-Astral an explanation of why he suspected the presence of third parties in the first place, so I’ll withdraw that part of my argument. I still think the balance of evidence is that Astral is Town, and that there’s certainly enough doubt that we shouldn’t risk lynching the Cop on Day 1.
I think I missed that unvote when I manually counted. Either way, my point is not harmed by there being LESS votes on him than I said, considering my point was that he claimed unforced and prematurely. 
Certainly in a closed game, you wouldn’t expect a counterclaim until Day Two–no sense in painting a target on their ass for scum before they can have had any investigation results.
In general, I want to make the point that there are a LOT of unwarranted assumptions regarding potential roles in the game in this thread. Closed games can certainly be standard, but they can just as easily be wildly non-standard (that’s actually been the case for me more often than not, playing on IdleMafia and other places than here).
Poor assumptions regarding whether we have cops, doctors, or whatever else are a good way for town to screw themselves over by planning for the appearance of power roles that may well not exist.
I have very few posts, owing to spotty internet access and demands of work. (Both issues which are resolving.) You have been able to post, but have focused much more on theorising about Night 0, for example, than on actually hunting scum. That’s the zone Scum do well in here.
Well, you said 4, there were actually 5, and MHaye said 6. Math is hard.
Bah, I say
Bah!
Didn’t Castle of Crossed Destinies on Idle start off with at least a Night 0 kill if not other actions?
What about a 3rd party who has an investigative power making them useful to Town? Or maybe they must find a specific person. Or maybe something else?
How many closed games have you played in?
In a closed game, with as many assumptions that are flying around here, a reality check on how little we actually **know **is vital to keep us from making false conclusions that could potentially allow scum to hide in plain sight.
While I believe that the case on Astral is really weak, this section of your counterargument is dangerously weak as well. You are arguing from “scum would not do that territory”, which assumes that scum are rational and logical, and that you are more so. All it takes is a single line of reason you haven’t seen, or an irrational action, and you’ve outlogiced yourself.
For example: I can think of a reason scum!Astral would claim such. He wanted to claim cop so as to not get lynched, but he didn’t want to claim ‘cop’ in fear of counterclaim. So he claimed ‘weak cop’ with the power of cop, and hoped it would work out.
It’s Day 1, in which shoddily-made cases are built and destroyed by the dozens. There was a good deal of time in the Day when you claimed. It was quite likely that votes would have drifted off of you. For the record.
That is a pretty compelling case, I have to say.
[quote=“special_ed, post:591, topic:582387”]
Bah?
[quote=“Weedy, post:596, topic:582387”]
Yes, the post made me go Bah.
Let me paraphrase it
Janet:
It just struck me as possibly a Scum hemming and hawing.True, but five is still greater than four. That being said, I probably wouldn’t have made the comment had I caught that Stanisalus had unvoted before the claim. (I misread my vote tracking spreadsheet.)
On Astral (again) - either Astral really has his role, in which case he could be Town or third party, or he doesn’t, in which case he’s an ALE drinker.
I don’t think third party is likely, since his role can (as claimed) discern ALE from non-ALE, and the ALE are the team likely to have the tool to summarily dispose of him.
I think Pleo’s method is the best here, although I think I prefer to leave the lynch another Day. That will give Astral four results. If his results are all Town, when we lynch him we’ll suddenly have a list of four players all of whom were vouched for by a known Townie, thus reducing the unknown pool hugely.
The ALE drinkers will then have to consider offing the investigated rather than search for the Doc, the full cop or whatever other roles Townies have.
Also, I can see how Astral can be a “weak cop.” All he can do, as claimed, is tell ALE from not-ALE. A full cop generally gets exact alignment (so can tell third parties from ALE) and role. Astral’s role is by no means as versatile as a full cop’s and therefore fully deserving of the word “weak.”
So, if not Astral then who?
I do not like Pleo’s bull-in-a-china-shop approach of claiming early and unprovoked. However, I also note that he’s rather made a rod for his back over this; he failed to claim in one of the ten games and got lynched for not claiming. He was Mafia that game, iirc. So he probably feels he has to claim every time.
The only way to break him of it would be to adopt a policy of lynching him for doing this. Getting an opinionated group like this to move in one direction has many things in common with trying to herd cats. So, for now, I think we’re stuck with it.
There’s another problem with all the votes piling up on Pleo. He won’t be back to defend himself against them until after Dusk. (It’s a long-standing pattern of play, which holds even if he’s modding.) He’s mentioned that the holiday will delay his return to the game. This effectively means that he won’t now be claiming if he moves into the vote lead. I’d rather give him a chance to defend himself.
As an aside; it appears the last vote you place is the one that counts, even if you fail to unvote first. Post [post=13853084]554[/post] records the voting shenanigans of Hirka and Pleo, both of whom were held to have rescinded an existing vote to place another – Pleo shifting from Sister C to fubbleskag, and Hirka from Sister C to Pleo, then Pleo to Pleo three times.
I found nesta’s case against fubbleskag outlined in post [post=13849268]523[/post] to be fairly persuasive. Fubbleskag jumped onto the excuse to vote Astral hard. Also, just as an aside, I raised my eyebrows at the way Ed presented the information. He just cut & pasted the two claimed PMs into one and left everyone to discover the differences. It took me a while. Just hinting like that was something |I found a bit suspicious. If you’re going to make an accusation, spell it out so the accused can defend themselves.
The other case that might bear closer inspection is stanislaus’s case against Zeriel in post [post=13853643]560[/post]. If Zeriel is as convinced as he claimed to be that Astral is third party (which is, imo, the least likely alignment for him, based on his claimed role) then by his own analysis he should be looking for an ALE drinker – but he’s voting for Astral.
I find the switch by fubbleskag more suspicious, but it may be a relatively new player jumping to conclusions. I’m going to sleep on it before voting. It being nearly 2am here, I think I’ve reached the end of my rope.
hmmm, seems to be a push for me to be lynched D2, assuming it’s not D1. no matter, if i get lynched, they will likely get suspected.
i have replied to Astral and Mahaloth in previous posts so i’ll address Silver Jan.
Jan, you were asking me to comment and i replied asking to what specifically. then you reply with a vote for me. why ask if you were going to vote for me anyway? perhaps you’re comparing my play now to our previous games too much. it also could mean you’re scum. 
that said, since i didn’t see a going away thread, i’ll post here. my family and i are moving houses this week. we’re starting to pack now so i’ll be in and out, mostly out, for the next 5 days. of course this will be academic if i get lynched or NKd. 
also, my time zone is GMT+8, exactly opposite EDT. i do try to stay up when everyone else is but i can’t always do so.